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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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gene Stein oh this is an episode we've

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been waiting for in the power cast with

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gene and Chris in a few seconds here

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we're going to be talking to David

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Perkins whom I'm told doesn't do radio

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shows so we're really lucky to have him

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so it's could be Chris O'Brien and David

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Perkins through much of this episode I

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do want to mention one thing before we

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go on and that is on last week's episode

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we featured Phyllis called II of Faith

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magazine and Jerome Clark and we learned

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a fat episode was recorded that one of

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the longtime editors of fake Donald

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Michael Craig had died of pancreatic

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cancer our sympathies go out to his

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friends and his family I knew him

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slightly in the 80s really nice guy

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really smart editor and we're all sad to

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see that he's gone let's get on with our

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episode this week Chris just recently

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finished this magnum opus called

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stalking the herd a lot of help I might

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add I keep joking with Chris that maybe

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the sequel should be called after the

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herd or the herds revenge I heard it

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through the cow pie so I think that's

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worse I heard it from what grows out of

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the cowboy how's that I'm just gonna get

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gross I'll tell you that right now I'm

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seeing this happening what's happening

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though is that with a book this big the

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subject has become far more extensive

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than I think even Chris realized until

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he put everything together all those

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years of research and you Chris and you

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David have been working together for a

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number of years on these subjects Chris

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tell us how you met David Perkins and

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tell us something more about him well

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the quick thumbnail sketches been heard

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several times over the years here on the

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show but when I first got involved in

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San Luis Valley innocently research you

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know

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article for a local newspaper the first

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thing I did was try to find who the

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principal characters we're in the

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subject of the cow mutilation phenomenon

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which I knew a little bit about but not

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much you know of course Linda house name

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came up early on burl Lewis the

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surviving owner of snippy the horse you

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know burl said you got to talk to those

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Texas guys and I said who are they and

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he said Tom Adams and Gary Massey they

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were combing you know the Midwest and

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Colorado and stuff during the 70s

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investigating these cases and so I

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called Tom and Tom says oh my god

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finally somebody showed up in the San

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Luis Valley that we can work with

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you've got to meet David Perkins and I

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said who's he he says well we kind of

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finally referred to him as Izzy's Ain

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and the question is very sane the answer

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is very sane and David was gone he was

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in the South Pacific I waited patiently

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for a couple of weeks for him to come

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back and then we started having daily

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phone calls and we instantly kind of hit

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it off I think we were both of a similar

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temperament in in terms of our

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objectivity about a lot of these things

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so we had these monumental phone calls

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for David Howe I think it was at least

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two or three months before I actually

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met you and David lived very close to me

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in 15 20 miles away but there was 14,000

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foot mountains between us so we we never

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actually met until I was invited over

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with my band to play the Libre 25th

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anniversary party and that's when I met

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Tom and Gary and David and I think I

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stayed what three or four days and then

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went home grabbed my brother and we came

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back for another couple days uh we

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started off with a whirlwind and ever

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since then I don't think I've ever

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talked with somebody on the phone as

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much as I've talked with David over the

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last 20 years and we've just been

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chipping away at this big granite block

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called the cattle mutilation mystery for

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decades now and and this is the first

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time I think David and I have ever

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actually done a radio show together

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which is kind of there's a little mind

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blowing to me but David is kind of shy

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and retiring when it comes to doing

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radio and I think we're very lucky to

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have him Chris actually I I didn't want

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to come on the pair of cast until I had

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the answer to the cattle mutilation

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oh boy I guess everybody's in for a

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scoop today well I'm a little short on

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that one still working on it like almost

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40 years later but I'm close

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getting close yeah well David why don't

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you give everybody a bit of a background

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kind of introduce yourself

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give us a thumbnail sketch of how you

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were you kissed the tar baby as I like

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to refer to it sort of no in a fond kind

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of twisted sort of way yeah it is sort

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of twisted let's say as they say long

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story short I'd moved to Colorado in

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1970 and built a house up on top of a

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mountain on a what shall we say artist

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colony in those days it was called a

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comm unit we as a group of like-minded

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people wanting to get out of the cities

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it was kind of chaotic back in the late

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sixties early seventies and we all met

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through various ways different artists

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painters and writers and musicians and

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those types and built our own houses on

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a piece of land in Colorado southern

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Colorado where we could do our art and

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do our thing and peace and quiet and

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beauty which it sort of was I had come

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out of the 70 you know from 1970 that

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period and I was very intrigued by

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investigative journalism that was the

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era of Watergate and I thought boy

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investigative journalism is a really

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powerful tool and it's something that I

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was very interested in journalism and

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music of course so I was sort of biding

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my time waiting for the something that

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was a challenging topic that I could

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take on as a piece of investigative

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journalism and it was hard to miss that

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in 1975 in Colorado it was all hell

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broke loose basically with the

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mutilations it was just every newspaper

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every headline it was really hard to

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ignore it was associated press story of

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the year and I was going wow this is

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interesting what is this I thought it

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would fade away and it didn't fade away

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and then gradually I got sucked into the

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mutilations happening near my house

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which I happened to see and then I

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started talking to the local newspaper

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editor and the local sheriff similar to

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what he did Chris

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you just you know start collecting files

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and then next thing you know you're in

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it over your head

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it's basically what happens well you

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actually were a prime suspect in the

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case right at the gate of your community

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well we joke about our first encounters

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with we call it the trickster touching

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the tar-baby or whatever but yeah I went

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into there was a mutilation that

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happened on the road about a mile south

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of our community in my house and I saw

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it I drove in I saw it I stopped and

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looked at it wow this is one of those

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things and I observed it made some notes

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went home the next day went back out

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looked at it again started really poking

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at it it was just right off the road

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really hard to miss I noticed there was

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a little blood actually well there were

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three drops of blood on three stones

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heading in the direction of my house and

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I thought well there's a little blood

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there and it's supposed to be bloodless

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but here's just a little blood so then I

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poked and poked and got there smelling

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really bad a dead cow and then went into

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the newspaper office

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a very small little office where the

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editor of the paper reeking of

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cadaverine and I said well what's have

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you got a file on these cattle

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mutilations what's up with this and we

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talked a while and he said well I think

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I should tell you David that you're

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actually considered a prime suspect in

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that mutilation I said what how could

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this be you know I said well yeah wow I

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was a bit Stanbury suppose sheriff you

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know since you guys moved in up there on

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the mountain that I think you should

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know that you were all suspects David

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before we go on did you feel at that

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point inclined to say you know maybe I

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should call a lawyer and see what's

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going on yeah really I was a bit stunned

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I thought well obviously you know this

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is ridiculous and this won't last but

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and once I got to know the sheriff we

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became very good friends and he that

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quickly dissipated that suspicion

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although I think maybe he's and some

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people you know he's

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rural counties always are a bit

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suspicious of outsiders to come into a

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community who have maybe strange ways of

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doing things or look different or

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whatever in those days it was kind of

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paranoid everybody was wondering what

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was going on we've got a lot more to

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cover

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we have David Parkin who's joining gene

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and Chris we're talking about cattle

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mutilations and Chris's new book

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stalking the herd and a little bit later

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in this episode we'll be asking your

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questions those are the questions that

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many of you posted in our forums at

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forum dot ^ cast comm that's formed at

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the parent caste calm the place we put

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the questions the question Bank more to

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[Music]

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code gene when you check out making the

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right decisions is a challenge to

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investors are we going to see economic

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growth slide into a recession or at

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worst depression hi Ted Anderson

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fremitus resources we all know when a

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company accident responsibly divesting

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ourselves and a move towards safety is

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prudent when the market becomes volatile

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US Treasuries are a safe haven but what

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do you do when the US government

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overextends itself and spends beyond its

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means many investors are turning toward

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gold is a common-sense alternative to

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traditional paper investments Midas

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resources has put together a powerful

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book titled ten reasons to own gold

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discussing costs benefits risks

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featuring full-color illustrations

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weights and measures the book is free

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general steel has made it impossible to

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wait any longer with rock-bottom prices

274
00:12:17,850 --> 00:12:15,610
that could save you thousands that's

275
00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:17,860
right general steel America's leader in

276
00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:19,990
pre engineered structures is offering

277
00:12:24,420 --> 00:12:21,880
buildings at prices you will never see

278
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:24,430
again don't miss these prices a 50 by

279
00:12:30,390 --> 00:12:27,490
100 for under $30,000 you heard right

280
00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:30,400
that's 5000 square feet under $30,000

281
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,260
manufacturers if you need a larger

282
00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:34,480
building try a 100 by 100 commercial

283
00:12:37,740 --> 00:12:35,830
building for a hundred and twenty nine

284
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:37,750
thousand you can't afford to rent with

285
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:40,090
these prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot

286
00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:41,650
church building for under sixty nine

287
00:12:45,330 --> 00:12:43,420
thousand dollars with the economy

288
00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:45,340
improving and interest rate still at

289
00:12:50,130 --> 00:12:47,470
historic lows you can't afford to wait

290
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:50,140
so call eight six six ninety one steel

291
00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:51,970
plucking your price now take delivery

292
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:54,190
and spring eight six six ninety one

293
00:12:59,730 --> 00:12:57,010
steel that's eight six six nine one

294
00:13:01,770 --> 00:12:59,740
seven eighty three thirty-five there are

295
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:01,780
many things the human body can do very

296
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well but maintaining the proper pH level

297
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isn't always one of them that's where

298
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303
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306
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[Music]

317
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:11,380
Ericka's calm that's news at the para

318
00:14:16,930 --> 00:14:14,240
caste calm and don't forget to visit our

319
00:14:22,329 --> 00:14:16,940
famous para caste community forums at

320
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:22,339
forum dot the para caste calm Chris has

321
00:14:27,370 --> 00:14:25,130
perfected the ultimate voice cattle

322
00:14:30,070 --> 00:14:27,380
mutilations is there a way to save the

323
00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:30,080
para cast and move like a cow the berry

324
00:14:39,970 --> 00:14:34,910
cos no I don't think that's not at work

325
00:14:41,889 --> 00:14:39,980
ok so David you were at first a suspect

326
00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:41,899
then of course the sheriff got to know

327
00:14:47,410 --> 00:14:44,270
you and I'm glad of that we wouldn't

328
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:47,420
want to have to visit you in jail but

329
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:49,610
ask a question here that hits me right

330
00:14:56,889 --> 00:14:53,600
off the top has anyone anywhere ever

331
00:15:00,970 --> 00:14:56,899
been officially charged with a crime of

332
00:15:04,570 --> 00:15:00,980
this nature well Chris has one what was

333
00:15:09,579 --> 00:15:04,580
the English case always yea the Georgia

334
00:15:11,410 --> 00:15:09,589
dodgy case a Hindi clergyman in right in

335
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:11,420
the town I guess where Nick Redfern grew

336
00:15:17,769 --> 00:15:14,330
up was charged sentenced and convicted

337
00:15:20,650 --> 00:15:17,779
of being a horse slasher but in Charles

338
00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:20,660
Forte's book I think wild talents he was

339
00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:24,529
called Academy later so that we're going

340
00:15:31,150 --> 00:15:27,950
all the way back to 1902 other than that

341
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:31,160
there have been none Jean and that makes

342
00:15:34,660 --> 00:15:32,480
this mystery even more compelling

343
00:15:36,990 --> 00:15:34,670
because you would think Murphy's Law

344
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:37,000
would kick in somebody would mess up

345
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:39,440
helicopter would crash running on a gas

346
00:15:44,860 --> 00:15:42,170
somebody would break a leg something

347
00:15:47,410 --> 00:15:44,870
would happen that would expose one of

348
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,420
these perpetrators at least in one

349
00:15:53,260 --> 00:15:50,480
instance enough to be actually

350
00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:53,270
apprehended or somehow compromised in

351
00:15:58,300 --> 00:15:55,339
their process but it hasn't happened

352
00:16:00,880 --> 00:15:58,310
since the early 20th century

353
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:00,890
so before we don't want is there reason

354
00:16:07,569 --> 00:16:04,310
to think though that we have human

355
00:16:12,730 --> 00:16:07,579
actors involved here who are involved in

356
00:16:15,069 --> 00:16:12,740
cattle mutilations human actors I'll let

357
00:16:16,009 --> 00:16:15,079
you take that one David yeah there's a

358
00:16:18,499 --> 00:16:16,019
lot of

359
00:16:21,949 --> 00:16:18,509
very circumstantial evidence that would

360
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:21,959
suggest that but I think it's kind of

361
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:23,759
getting a little bit the card ahead of

362
00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:26,639
the horse here you know of course this

363
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:32,569
is you know the realm of popular

364
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:34,980
conceptions about this whole mystery and

365
00:16:41,119 --> 00:16:37,290
of course Linda Howe has been the the

366
00:16:43,970 --> 00:16:41,129
chief kind of bird dog and all this for

367
00:16:45,819 --> 00:16:43,980
the last twenty years pretty much and

368
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:45,829
you know she's fairly convinced that

369
00:16:51,379 --> 00:16:48,959
humans are not involved so I think the

370
00:16:53,660 --> 00:16:51,389
the prevailing view out there in the pop

371
00:16:55,460 --> 00:16:53,670
culture is that this is ETS coming down

372
00:16:56,419 --> 00:16:55,470
and doing it that's why no one's ever

373
00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:56,429
been busted

374
00:17:00,199 --> 00:16:58,410
of course the skeptics and debunkers

375
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,209
would say there's nothing to this at all

376
00:17:05,149 --> 00:17:02,639
this is all mundane scavenger action

377
00:17:07,639 --> 00:17:05,159
this is a lot of people getting

378
00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:07,649
hysterical the media is Fanning the

379
00:17:12,350 --> 00:17:09,750
flames of this hysteria and every dead

380
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:12,360
cow out there is being seen as by

381
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:15,329
amateurs as being mutilated and you know

382
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:19,199
these these are not tenable we have

383
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:21,449
plenty of cases that would suggest that

384
00:17:26,029 --> 00:17:23,370
the intelligence is being applied to

385
00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:26,039
these operations these experiments

386
00:17:33,289 --> 00:17:30,360
possibly and coyotes don't cut hair

387
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:33,299
follicles in a straight line it's just

388
00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:36,720
not part of a natural predation and

389
00:17:41,899 --> 00:17:40,380
scavenging scenario so there does appear

390
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:41,909
to be intelligence behind this whether

391
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:43,679
it's human intelligence whether it's

392
00:17:50,180 --> 00:17:45,929
some sort of preternatural intelligence

393
00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:50,190
whether it's ETS whether it's any number

394
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:53,070
of fantastic you know what if scenarios

395
00:17:59,389 --> 00:17:55,770
is still open to quite a bit of debate

396
00:18:02,120 --> 00:17:59,399
but David and I often agree and kind of

397
00:18:03,649 --> 00:18:02,130
joke when we you know come up with the

398
00:18:06,019 --> 00:18:03,659
assertion that it doesn't matter which

399
00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:06,029
Theory you come up with and and you

400
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:08,580
present the support of data to to you

401
00:18:13,940 --> 00:18:11,700
know argue that particular theory David

402
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:13,950
and I can take the opposite view and and

403
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:17,130
totally negate that theory so this is a

404
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:20,460
very very slippery slope of it doesn't

405
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,200
matter what you come up with to try to

406
00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:24,000
explain this there's more than enough

407
00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:25,529
data to refute that particular

408
00:18:29,629 --> 00:18:27,510
explanation and round and round we go

409
00:18:32,899 --> 00:18:29,639
let me ask you here for

410
00:18:34,999 --> 00:18:32,909
is there a starting point here like in

411
00:18:38,089 --> 00:18:35,009
the UFO field we always say Kenneth

412
00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:38,099
Arnold's sighting June 24th 1947 was the

413
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:40,950
progenitor of UFO cases of course if you

414
00:18:44,810 --> 00:18:42,299
do your research you find that's not

415
00:18:47,479 --> 00:18:44,820
quite true that you've had sightings far

416
00:18:50,389 --> 00:18:47,489
back in the past but is there a first

417
00:18:53,509 --> 00:18:50,399
case or first important case when it

418
00:18:57,109 --> 00:18:53,519
comes to cattle mutilations well yeah

419
00:18:59,299 --> 00:18:57,119
the typhoid mary publicized case is the

420
00:19:01,180 --> 00:18:59,309
snippy the horse case or lady the horses

421
00:19:03,619 --> 00:19:01,190
Linda likes to remind everybody that

422
00:19:08,180 --> 00:19:03,629
happened the end of the first week of

423
00:19:10,579 --> 00:19:08,190
September 1967 but again really digging

424
00:19:12,589 --> 00:19:10,589
into this whole thing we have cases and

425
00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:12,599
waves of livestock mutilations that go

426
00:19:18,499 --> 00:19:14,609
back to the earliest one I can find is

427
00:19:20,749 --> 00:19:18,509
1606 and the Shires around London there

428
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:20,759
were cases in Australia in the 20s

429
00:19:26,329 --> 00:19:23,369
and in around the turn of the century we

430
00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:26,339
had cases potential cases in the early

431
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:29,070
to mid 60's in Pennsylvania the John

432
00:19:33,889 --> 00:19:31,679
keel and Ivan Sanderson individually and

433
00:19:35,719 --> 00:19:33,899
collectively looked into but the snippy

434
00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:35,729
the horse case is is widely considered

435
00:19:41,719 --> 00:19:38,609
and rightfully so as the first

436
00:19:45,199 --> 00:19:41,729
international news story about this kind

437
00:19:46,849 --> 00:19:45,209
of of case and that pretty much is

438
00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:46,859
ground zero and of course the snippy

439
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:49,950
case occurred about 25 30 miles from

440
00:19:54,109 --> 00:19:52,289
where I lived in Colorado for 13 years

441
00:19:57,079 --> 00:19:54,119
and just over the hill from where David

442
00:19:58,879 --> 00:19:57,089
lived in libre he arrived I think that

443
00:20:00,560 --> 00:19:58,889
for your first trip out there was in 68

444
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:00,570
so it would have been the following year

445
00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:04,799
but over the years that pretty much is

446
00:20:08,959 --> 00:20:06,539
considered to be the first publicized

447
00:20:12,849 --> 00:20:08,969
case what would you add on that David I

448
00:20:17,869 --> 00:20:12,859
would add the Alexander Hamilton

449
00:20:21,459 --> 00:20:17,879
counting case of 1897 8 yeah this sort

450
00:20:25,629 --> 00:20:21,469
of set the stage for aerial craft

451
00:20:29,149 --> 00:20:25,639
abducting cattle even though it's hotly

452
00:20:30,619 --> 00:20:29,159
you know debated whether that was even

453
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:30,629
true or whether it was a hoax

454
00:20:36,529 --> 00:20:33,450
nonetheless we'll start talking in a

455
00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:36,539
while about memes these are you know

456
00:20:41,180 --> 00:20:38,609
ideas that are perpetuated through the

457
00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:41,190
culture it's a cultural

458
00:20:47,419 --> 00:20:44,460
equivalent of a gene basically that it's

459
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:47,429
what propels culture is passed from mind

460
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:49,769
to mind it's an image that takes hold

461
00:20:54,979 --> 00:20:52,559
and passes through the culture and

462
00:20:57,259 --> 00:20:54,989
directs the culture to some extent

463
00:20:59,269 --> 00:20:57,269
so if you're talking about planting of

464
00:21:00,859 --> 00:20:59,279
memes of the cattle mutilation meme I

465
00:21:03,259 --> 00:21:00,869
would have to say that would be

466
00:21:06,019 --> 00:21:03,269
important even if it was a hoax it was

467
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:06,029
still a highly successful meme yeah and

468
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:08,129
we did quite a bit of digging you

469
00:21:13,369 --> 00:21:11,369
especially uncovered some some new

470
00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:13,379
information about that particular case

471
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:16,169
and we very carefully sort of

472
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:19,289
backtracked the the stories at the time

473
00:21:25,609 --> 00:21:22,129
when this occurred and how this

474
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:25,619
particular story was was debunked by

475
00:21:31,820 --> 00:21:29,970
Jerome Clark in the 70s where he came

476
00:21:34,219 --> 00:21:31,830
forward and said oh well this was you

477
00:21:36,289 --> 00:21:34,229
know a joke perpetrated by a member of a

478
00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:36,299
liar's club and there's nothing to see

479
00:21:42,739 --> 00:21:40,049
here move along folks and David did many

480
00:21:45,919 --> 00:21:42,749
hours of research and digging into old

481
00:21:48,049 --> 00:21:45,929
newspaper archives and and really

482
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:48,059
combing through what was available

483
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:51,090
online about this particular person

484
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,129
Alexander Hamilton and David you

485
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:54,960
uncovered some interesting things to

486
00:21:59,149 --> 00:21:56,970
kind of refute what what Gerry Clarke

487
00:22:01,639 --> 00:21:59,159
had to say in terms of dismissing the

488
00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:01,649
case as a hoax and this is something by

489
00:22:06,619 --> 00:22:03,809
the way began to more detail in our next

490
00:22:09,349 --> 00:22:06,629
segment isn't it funny though fair on

491
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:09,359
last week's episode the power cast we

492
00:22:15,109 --> 00:22:12,210
did feature Jerome Clarke we did not

493
00:22:17,089 --> 00:22:15,119
focus though on cattle mutilations just

494
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:17,099
want to let everyone know that those who

495
00:22:20,989 --> 00:22:19,049
haven't heard last week's episode yet we

496
00:22:22,909 --> 00:22:20,999
talk more about other stuff and very

497
00:22:26,539 --> 00:22:22,919
heavily about his connection with fate

498
00:22:29,299 --> 00:22:26,549
magazine in any case this week it's a

499
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:29,309
super super special episode about cattle

500
00:22:33,469 --> 00:22:31,710
mutilations in light of the publication

501
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:33,479
of stalking the herd by Chris O'Brien

502
00:22:40,609 --> 00:22:38,190
his friend mentor colleague David

503
00:22:42,130 --> 00:22:40,619
Perkins has joined us a lot more to come

504
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:42,140
with gene and Chris you're in

505
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:50,860
we are the premier independent talk

506
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radio network the genesis communications

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network G C n attack of the rock ODEs

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510
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511
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512
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:10,340
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513
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514
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515
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516
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Shield can help you the loyal GCN

547
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548
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549
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550
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551
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552
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555
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557
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559
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560
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564
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565
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566
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567
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568
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569
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570
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571
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572
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573
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574
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575
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576
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577
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578
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579
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580
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583
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584
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585
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586
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587
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588
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589
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593
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594
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599
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600
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601
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605
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606
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:50,840
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607
00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:52,730
forget to sign up for the free herbal

608
00:27:02,740 --> 00:26:55,310
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609
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:02,750
working with the power of nature hi you

610
00:27:09,490 --> 00:27:04,310
make Pope you're listening to the

611
00:27:11,020 --> 00:27:09,500
Paragon I knew he'd do that so David how

612
00:27:13,690 --> 00:27:11,030
do you put up with that does he do that

613
00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:13,700
when you're working with him does he

614
00:27:20,770 --> 00:27:16,390
come up with stuff like that yes he does

615
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:20,780
constantly constantly does we amuse each

616
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:24,050
other no end we're gonna take it on the

617
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:26,330
road as a comedy stand-up comedy team

618
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:28,250
one of these days yeah we've been

619
00:27:31,930 --> 00:27:29,810
working on that for a while I have only

620
00:27:35,710 --> 00:27:31,940
so first we have to get you on The

621
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:35,720
Tonight Show oh yeah okay then once you

622
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:38,210
do that you go out there maybe do a

623
00:27:46,150 --> 00:27:40,850
two-step or something oh yeah let's get

624
00:27:48,430 --> 00:27:46,160
back to a real discussion well yeah

625
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:48,440
let's let's continue talking about

626
00:27:54,010 --> 00:27:50,890
Alexander Hamilton and the the infamous

627
00:27:55,300 --> 00:27:54,020
cap napping case basically just as a

628
00:27:57,250 --> 00:27:55,310
thumbnail sketch for some of our

629
00:28:00,190 --> 00:27:57,260
first-time listeners are people not

630
00:28:02,170 --> 00:28:00,200
aware of this particular case and I

631
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:02,180
think it was the Yates Center Kansas

632
00:28:07,390 --> 00:28:05,120
newspaper a story was published that

633
00:28:09,930 --> 00:28:07,400
claimed this pillar of the community

634
00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:09,940
Alexander Hamilton who David

635
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:12,200
subsequently found out was the justice

636
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:15,650
of the peace for the county claimed that

637
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,010
he and one of his ranch hands and I

638
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:21,520
think his son in broad daylight

639
00:28:27,820 --> 00:28:23,930
witnessed what appeared to be one of

640
00:28:29,530 --> 00:28:27,830
these great airships overhead and at

641
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:29,540
first thing he noticed one of his calves

642
00:28:34,450 --> 00:28:31,910
was caught up in a fence and was was

643
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:34,460
bawling and he ran out to to see what

644
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:36,770
was wrong and noticed that it was

645
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:38,720
entangled in the fence because it was

646
00:28:44,260 --> 00:28:41,600
being it gets dragged off by this blimp

647
00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:44,270
like object that was sailing overhead

648
00:28:49,330 --> 00:28:47,230
and he tried to free the cow and it it

649
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:49,340
became free from the fence and then

650
00:28:54,940 --> 00:28:52,850
sailed off you know after this you know

651
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:54,950
being tied to a rope from this airship

652
00:28:59,040 --> 00:28:57,290
and I think it was what the following

653
00:29:01,580 --> 00:28:59,050
day it was found two days later

654
00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:01,590
eviscerated but they were able to ID

655
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:06,630
because of the brand yeah did I got all

656
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:09,600
that right I think I did yeah I'm not

657
00:29:15,769 --> 00:29:12,690
sure it was Eviscerator I'm not sure but

658
00:29:17,659 --> 00:29:15,779
the the thing about Hamilton I'm still a

659
00:29:22,190 --> 00:29:17,669
little puzzled by and I'm used to doing

660
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:22,200
genealogy worked in old newspapers I'm a

661
00:29:27,049 --> 00:29:23,850
member of all the newspaper archive

662
00:29:29,539 --> 00:29:27,059
sites and you can go back and I've done

663
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:29,549
a lot of that stuff and it's puzzling

664
00:29:35,060 --> 00:29:31,289
for somebody who was such a prominent

665
00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:35,070
person in that region that there's

666
00:29:39,549 --> 00:29:37,260
virtually nothing about him or his wife

667
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,559
in the papers and in those days they

668
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:41,760
publicized every little thing you did if

669
00:29:46,190 --> 00:29:44,880
you went to lunch you know Fred Murphy's

670
00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:46,200
house boy that was going to be in the

671
00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:48,840
newspaper but there's just nothing there

672
00:29:54,019 --> 00:29:52,380
the one thing I found was that I believe

673
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:54,029
it was two days after the incident he

674
00:30:00,159 --> 00:29:56,970
Hamilton submitted his resignation as

675
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:00,169
Justice of the Peace to the governor

676
00:30:06,889 --> 00:30:05,490
this was just odd it just seemed get

677
00:30:08,330 --> 00:30:06,899
different ways you could probably read

678
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:08,340
that it's like he knew that he was gonna

679
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:11,220
you know take a beating for from come

680
00:30:15,620 --> 00:30:13,140
here was such an outlandish story and

681
00:30:18,649 --> 00:30:15,630
felt maybe that his dignity is the

682
00:30:20,539 --> 00:30:18,659
justice of the peace might you know

683
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:20,549
might not work for him that way so he

684
00:30:24,919 --> 00:30:23,010
quit but why he quit I don't know that's

685
00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:24,929
it I just can't find anything else on

686
00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:29,390
him basically some very strange another

687
00:30:35,930 --> 00:30:31,500
affidavit that he filed with another

688
00:30:39,049 --> 00:30:35,940
newspaper was quite odd about his

689
00:30:41,419 --> 00:30:39,059
political leanings and slavery and this

690
00:30:43,460 --> 00:30:41,429
that and the other and Chris and I just

691
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:43,470
scratched our heads about that one and

692
00:30:48,019 --> 00:30:45,330
that's been left out of all the reports

693
00:30:50,180 --> 00:30:48,029
because it is just so baffling but

694
00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:50,190
there's a lot there that is still not

695
00:30:55,159 --> 00:30:52,860
explained in my mind and I think Chris

696
00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:55,169
is rightfully as keeping this case alive

697
00:31:01,760 --> 00:30:57,750
and I still don't think it's entirely

698
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:01,770
put put away well Jerome Clark mentioned

699
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:04,890
that Hamilton confessed that it was a

700
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:07,529
hoax and that it was all part of a

701
00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:11,370
liar's club you know trick on on the

702
00:31:14,790 --> 00:31:14,100
public and David actually was able to

703
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:14,800
find

704
00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:17,170
the original article that Jerry Clark

705
00:31:22,530 --> 00:31:21,430
referred to and in that article is the

706
00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:22,540
most ridiculous

707
00:31:28,290 --> 00:31:26,260
disclaimer by Hamilton saying oh it must

708
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:28,300
have been an optical illusion I must my

709
00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:29,650
eyes must have tricked me

710
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:32,620
it it was a lightning bug flying over

711
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:34,960
with a hair hanging down from it and an

712
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:36,610
ant was crawling up the hair and that

713
00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:39,370
must have been the calf I mean to me

714
00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:43,390
that's it just doesn't have any

715
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,590
semblance of any sort of confession or

716
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:50,080
Mia culpa about perpetrating a hoax in

717
00:31:54,810 --> 00:31:52,690
fact to me it indicates the opposite

718
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:54,820
that he was embarrassed and he was

719
00:31:59,220 --> 00:31:56,490
coming up with the most outlandish

720
00:32:01,980 --> 00:31:59,230
scenario to explain why he would come up

721
00:32:05,310 --> 00:32:01,990
with such such a you know sensational

722
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:05,320
claim has he did about his calf and of

723
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:06,910
course Jerry never mentioned that the

724
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:09,760
calf was discovered some couple miles

725
00:32:12,930 --> 00:32:11,410
away and I do believe it was missing

726
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:12,940
parts day but if I remember correctly

727
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:16,000
yeah so there's no mention of an

728
00:32:20,490 --> 00:32:18,490
affidavit really in that article he just

729
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:20,500
does come up with this outlandish

730
00:32:26,220 --> 00:32:23,440
explanation and I really have a sense

731
00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:26,230
that Jerry spun that as a way to

732
00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:29,980
disassociate any sort of UFO type object

733
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:32,470
with the mystery of cattle mutilations

734
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:34,810
which at the time of his article was a

735
00:32:40,610 --> 00:32:37,840
very big ongoing story in the 70s and

736
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:40,620
David and I have both kind of wondered

737
00:32:46,650 --> 00:32:45,100
why over the years we've been able to

738
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:46,660
dig up some pretty interesting

739
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:49,410
information about some of the main

740
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:52,810
players in the field of ufology trying

741
00:32:57,710 --> 00:32:55,570
to place the blame for the mutilation

742
00:33:01,620 --> 00:32:57,720
waves that were occurring in the 70s on

743
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:01,630
Satanists and in occultists and as the

744
00:33:09,270 --> 00:33:04,330
book kind of very patiently sort of lays

745
00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:09,280
out there seems to be an indication of a

746
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:11,320
concerted effort by certain members of

747
00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:13,810
the youth logical community most notably

748
00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:18,220
Allen Hynek to totally disassociate and

749
00:33:23,490 --> 00:33:21,220
separate the the the meme of cattle

750
00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:23,500
mutilations from the UFO phenomenon and

751
00:33:28,409 --> 00:33:25,870
the Jerry Clark assertion in the fate

752
00:33:32,129 --> 00:33:28,419
article I believe is where he originally

753
00:33:35,399 --> 00:33:32,139
that yeah it just there's something that

754
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:35,409
doesn't ring true about that and love to

755
00:33:38,460 --> 00:33:36,970
ask Jerry about that next time we talked

756
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:38,470
to him I'm sorry I wasn't able to last

757
00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:41,529
week but you know this is just

758
00:33:47,009 --> 00:33:44,409
emblematic of the the types of

759
00:33:49,109 --> 00:33:47,019
approaches that that I was trying to

760
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:49,119
take and with with a great amount of

761
00:33:53,639 --> 00:33:51,039
effort and help on David's part we

762
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:53,649
really tried to identify when certain

763
00:33:59,340 --> 00:33:56,289
theories to attempt to explain the

764
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:59,350
mutilations in the 70s where they kind

765
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:01,600
of were formulated who were the the

766
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:05,200
players that were promoting particular

767
00:34:12,059 --> 00:34:07,840
disclaimers and alternative theories and

768
00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:12,069
it's very very fascinating to look at

769
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:15,790
how certain explanations kind of took

770
00:34:19,799 --> 00:34:18,159
hold within the the media took hold

771
00:34:21,899 --> 00:34:19,809
within the law-enforcement community and

772
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:21,909
how they they kind of spun off in their

773
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:24,129
own direction and David and I have

774
00:34:29,579 --> 00:34:27,520
always I think agreed that the

775
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:29,589
mutilations are horrific and they're you

776
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:32,530
know there's something that the deserve

777
00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:34,720
investigative and research attention but

778
00:34:41,490 --> 00:34:38,049
what is even more fascinating is how

779
00:34:43,649 --> 00:34:41,500
these particular theories you know sort

780
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:43,659
of grow legs and have a life of their

781
00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:46,000
own and spin off in the directions that

782
00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:48,280
are then sort of amassed into the

783
00:34:54,270 --> 00:34:51,790
popular culture and David was was very

784
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:54,280
instrumental in spending hundreds of

785
00:35:00,030 --> 00:34:57,129
hours tracking down certain leads and

786
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:00,040
and really backtracking certain stories

787
00:35:04,109 --> 00:35:02,290
you'll never hear from Linda Howe or

788
00:35:05,849 --> 00:35:04,119
some of the other investigators out

789
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:05,859
there that'll convince this as ETS

790
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:07,930
you'll never hear that some of the waves

791
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:10,690
of mutilations that that began in the

792
00:35:19,339 --> 00:35:15,730
Midwest were started on top of waves of

793
00:35:22,099 --> 00:35:19,349
cattle rustling for instance and in

794
00:35:25,859 --> 00:35:22,109
incredible numbers of well documented

795
00:35:28,289 --> 00:35:25,869
helicopter helicopter sightings you'll

796
00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:28,299
never hear about cases of hooded figures

797
00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:30,700
carrying torches trying to block traffic

798
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:34,569
in in one one particular case or as

799
00:35:39,329 --> 00:35:36,730
David found out which was a big surprise

800
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:39,339
to me though even seems to be a hairy

801
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:41,890
hominid precursor

802
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,290
of scenario going on in several areas of

803
00:35:49,370 --> 00:35:46,720
the Midwest that that we can talk about

804
00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:49,380
David what do you think I mean you did a

805
00:35:54,420 --> 00:35:51,880
tremendous amount of really detailed

806
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:54,430
work researching some of these things

807
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,530
that I've just mentioned what is your

808
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:58,720
thinking before we get into that we're

809
00:36:02,670 --> 00:36:00,400
going to break in a moment and I want to

810
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:02,680
listen to you folks talk about the

811
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:04,330
various theories and why some of those

812
00:36:07,380 --> 00:36:06,370
theories just do not pass muster of

813
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:07,390
course it's true

814
00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:10,510
in a lot of these fields that once a

815
00:36:16,050 --> 00:36:14,980
theory gets out there and some people

816
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:16,060
embrace it

817
00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:19,570
facts no longer matter Chris's book is

818
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:22,060
called stalking the herd there is a

819
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:24,310
website called stalking the herd comm

820
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:25,930
where you find out more about the book

821
00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:30,160
and you can order an autographed copy

822
00:36:35,340 --> 00:36:32,980
Chris will sign it he'll sign as many as

823
00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:35,350
you people order with Gene and Chris

824
00:36:39,830 --> 00:36:37,150
more to come with David Perkins you're

825
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:39,840
in Liberec cast

826
00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:49,530
[Music]

827
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the mind roam the earth is there

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846
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848
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877
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890
00:39:41,890 --> 00:39:41,150
local channels - at just $19.99 what are

891
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:41,900
you waiting for

892
00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:43,850
pull out your major credit or debit card

893
00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:49,550
call 185 905 my TV one 855 905 my TV say

894
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:52,100
goodbye to the Cable Guy cut costs and

895
00:40:02,590 --> 00:39:57,920
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896
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:02,600
oh my back is out again hi dr. workman

897
00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:04,610
with Wellspring spinal care if you're

898
00:40:08,350 --> 00:40:06,080
experiencing neck

899
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:08,360
lower back pain this information is for

900
00:40:12,070 --> 00:40:10,460
you one of the complaints that I hear is

901
00:40:14,350 --> 00:40:12,080
patients receive their typical

902
00:40:16,330 --> 00:40:14,360
adjustment only having to repeat them as

903
00:40:18,370 --> 00:40:16,340
the pain returns putting the bones back

904
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:18,380
in place is only half of the battle at

905
00:40:22,690 --> 00:40:20,090
wellspring spinal care we have the

906
00:40:25,180 --> 00:40:22,700
entire solution we use the Nuka approach

907
00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:25,190
utilizing 3-dimensional x-rays and

908
00:40:29,380 --> 00:40:27,110
gentle touch technology to deliver

909
00:40:31,150 --> 00:40:29,390
specific correction we then design a

910
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,160
custom nutritional supplement program

911
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:33,440
which provides essential nutrients

912
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:35,570
targeting the areas of concern with a

913
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:37,130
Nuka approach and proper nutrition

914
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:39,440
you'll be on your way to a faster and

915
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:41,330
more permanent recovery to get you on

916
00:40:48,190 --> 00:40:43,370
the road to wellness visit dr. Ortman

917
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:48,200
comm that's dr. o RT ma n comm or call

918
00:40:53,050 --> 00:40:50,510
us today nine five two three oh three

919
00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:53,060
ninety one twenty four that's nine five

920
00:40:57,250 --> 00:40:55,310
two three oh three ninety one twenty

921
00:41:08,950 --> 00:40:57,260
four wellspring spinal care chiropractic

922
00:41:10,860 --> 00:41:08,960
done right my name is Richard Dolan

923
00:41:18,730 --> 00:41:10,870
you're listening to the para cast

924
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:21,289
so let's look at the theories and maybe

925
00:41:26,420 --> 00:41:24,000
do a little myth-busting here as David

926
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:26,430
Perkins joins Jean and Chris the book is

927
00:41:30,890 --> 00:41:29,010
stalking the herd so David you're the

928
00:41:33,319 --> 00:41:30,900
mythbuster right that's it

929
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:33,329
start busting some myths go ahead please

930
00:41:38,930 --> 00:41:36,450
well og where do you begin on this one

931
00:41:40,819 --> 00:41:38,940
first of all I'd like to emphasize to

932
00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:40,829
your listeners how important it is that

933
00:41:47,329 --> 00:41:44,910
they obtain chris's book and read it

934
00:41:50,750 --> 00:41:47,339
all the way through and get up to speed

935
00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:50,760
and educate yourself in fact read all of

936
00:41:54,890 --> 00:41:52,980
Chris's books I see some of your

937
00:41:56,509 --> 00:41:54,900
listeners they say well I've read one of

938
00:41:58,640 --> 00:41:56,519
Chris's books and that was good it's

939
00:42:00,109 --> 00:41:58,650
like read them all and read them

940
00:42:02,269 --> 00:42:00,119
back-to-back and then read them again

941
00:42:04,130 --> 00:42:02,279
people need to get up to speed on this

942
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:04,140
kind of stuff and now if you're

943
00:42:08,690 --> 00:42:06,079
interested in

944
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:08,700
solved mysteries this is probably the

945
00:42:13,099 --> 00:42:10,890
greatest one ever and with the biggest

946
00:42:14,690 --> 00:42:13,109
implications of any mystery that I can

947
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:14,700
think of no matter what the answer is

948
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:17,670
it's huge what Chris does such a fine

949
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:20,690
job of in this book is as detailing

950
00:42:27,019 --> 00:42:23,130
where all of these theories came from

951
00:42:28,970 --> 00:42:27,029
going all the way back well say going

952
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:28,980
back to snippy in particular which he

953
00:42:35,289 --> 00:42:32,400
does a fantastic job better than any

954
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:35,299
written account of that I've ever read

955
00:42:41,749 --> 00:42:39,210
in terms of how the meme or the myth

956
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:41,759
took off from snippy with the owner of

957
00:42:46,249 --> 00:42:43,890
the Horace and Elly Lewis telling The

958
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:46,259
Associated Press flying a flying saucer

959
00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:48,690
killed my horse I'm getting stronger

960
00:42:53,660 --> 00:42:52,049
than that for a tabloid headline or any

961
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:53,670
kind of headline but this Associated

962
00:42:59,450 --> 00:42:55,740
Press it went all over the world it was

963
00:43:02,329 --> 00:42:59,460
enormous beginning of the myth which we

964
00:43:04,269 --> 00:43:02,339
are still in that myth working in that

965
00:43:09,579 --> 00:43:04,279
myth right to this very day

966
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:09,589
years and years and years later so that

967
00:43:17,210 --> 00:43:12,480
then it would took the permutations I

968
00:43:21,799 --> 00:43:17,220
guess started after as in the early 70s

969
00:43:23,930 --> 00:43:21,809
when it became a little more to a public

970
00:43:26,749 --> 00:43:23,940
consciousness people specially well it

971
00:43:29,809 --> 00:43:26,759
sounds like cults to me ours must be the

972
00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:29,819
government or those were the prominent

973
00:43:34,099 --> 00:43:30,390
theories

974
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:34,109
the day I said to Chris that to me I'm

975
00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:35,220
working on this morning

976
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:36,990
from a social science point of view

977
00:43:41,809 --> 00:43:39,119
that's my training that's been my

978
00:43:44,299 --> 00:43:41,819
interest and that's my skills more than

979
00:43:46,789 --> 00:43:44,309
a hard science point of view but to me

980
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:46,799
looking at the theories it's like a

981
00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:49,410
Rorschach test of culture whatever you

982
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:51,900
see you see you see snippy the horse

983
00:43:58,059 --> 00:43:54,650
mutilated and what comes to your mind is

984
00:44:00,859 --> 00:43:58,069
basically what you fear or what you

985
00:44:04,099 --> 00:44:00,869
invoke or what want to see happen

986
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:04,109
whether it's a flying saucer or scenario

987
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:07,410
or whether you're afraid of cults or if

988
00:44:11,509 --> 00:44:09,450
you're or think afraid of the government

989
00:44:13,579 --> 00:44:11,519
are you afraid of bigger powers out

990
00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:13,589
there that might squash you in some way

991
00:44:19,819 --> 00:44:16,230
or the other it tends to mirror what

992
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:19,829
your fears and expectations are right

993
00:44:25,279 --> 00:44:22,410
off the bat you've got classifications

994
00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:25,289
of people that see you know slug Greg

995
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:27,720
Bishop was saying you you're gonna find

996
00:44:31,609 --> 00:44:29,849
what you expect to find and his foreword

997
00:44:35,059 --> 00:44:31,619
there and it's just some degree that's

998
00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:35,069
true however I would differ from with

999
00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:37,049
that a little bit in that when I started

1000
00:44:41,420 --> 00:44:39,000
off in this I fully expected to find the

1001
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:41,430
government behind it and if briefly I

1002
00:44:45,380 --> 00:44:43,200
thought well maybe it could be cults but

1003
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:45,390
no it doesn't that evidence doesn't seem

1004
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:47,970
to support that in the scale if this is

1005
00:44:53,870 --> 00:44:50,970
happening so I didn't end up fighting

1006
00:44:55,609 --> 00:44:53,880
what I expected to find I had no idea I

1007
00:44:58,220 --> 00:44:55,619
was going to be sitting here years and

1008
00:45:00,349 --> 00:44:58,230
years later trying to sort out these

1009
00:45:01,970 --> 00:45:00,359
various theories depending on where you

1010
00:45:04,190 --> 00:45:01,980
would want to start I mean there's a

1011
00:45:06,769 --> 00:45:04,200
certain amount of evidence for each each

1012
00:45:08,509 --> 00:45:06,779
of those major theories and it like

1013
00:45:12,980 --> 00:45:08,519
chris says that all the evidence tends

1014
00:45:14,809 --> 00:45:12,990
to negate itself there's enough just

1015
00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:14,819
enough evidence behind each theory to

1016
00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:17,160
give us some plausibility all right

1017
00:45:21,890 --> 00:45:19,710
let's look at ET because ET is one of

1018
00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:21,900
the more popular theories and very

1019
00:45:26,990 --> 00:45:23,400
likely because of one of the main

1020
00:45:29,539 --> 00:45:27,000
offenders Linda Moulton Howe so what

1021
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:29,549
does ET have in its favor although we

1022
00:45:32,779 --> 00:45:31,410
haven't even proven that ET is here

1023
00:45:35,299 --> 00:45:32,789
although that's a common theory with

1024
00:45:37,609 --> 00:45:35,309
regard to UFOs what's in its favor what

1025
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:37,619
is against it well what it what's in its

1026
00:45:40,759 --> 00:45:38,210
favor

1027
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,769
you know from my point of view you sift

1028
00:45:43,569 --> 00:45:42,240
all these things down in terms of what

1029
00:45:45,999 --> 00:45:43,579
their plausibility

1030
00:45:49,180 --> 00:45:46,009
it really is and if you're going to say

1031
00:45:51,069 --> 00:45:49,190
ETS are buying the cattle mutilations to

1032
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:51,079
me it's about the same as saying God is

1033
00:45:55,690 --> 00:45:53,410
behind the cattle mutilations because

1034
00:45:57,549 --> 00:45:55,700
each if you're looking at an

1035
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:57,559
extraterrestrial civilization that has

1036
00:46:02,769 --> 00:46:00,160
you know interfering with Earth's

1037
00:46:05,079 --> 00:46:02,779
activities it could be a million years

1038
00:46:07,779 --> 00:46:05,089
in advance of what our civilization is

1039
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:07,789
any amount that it would you know would

1040
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:09,920
put them ahead of us would make anything

1041
00:46:15,130 --> 00:46:12,650
they do possible anything that could

1042
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:15,140
possibly do is plausible because there's

1043
00:46:18,670 --> 00:46:16,729
so far advanced that can make us think

1044
00:46:23,339 --> 00:46:18,680
what they want us to think see what they

1045
00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:23,349
want us to see manipulate us mercilessly

1046
00:46:29,079 --> 00:46:26,150
so you know once you arrive at that

1047
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:29,089
particular theory then you know all bets

1048
00:46:33,849 --> 00:46:31,910
are off they could do anything so so

1049
00:46:37,089 --> 00:46:33,859
that kind of leaves you in a cul-de-sac

1050
00:46:39,579 --> 00:46:37,099
but if et is responsible wouldn't there

1051
00:46:43,150 --> 00:46:39,589
be more evidence of a higher grade of

1052
00:46:44,739 --> 00:46:43,160
technology that's a good point and with

1053
00:46:47,499 --> 00:46:44,749
a lot of these paranormal phenomena it

1054
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:47,509
seems like the technology that so-called

1055
00:46:51,999 --> 00:46:49,729
technology that we're witnessing is just

1056
00:46:55,930 --> 00:46:52,009
slightly ahead of where we are as humans

1057
00:46:59,410 --> 00:46:55,940
and I know the the airship wave is an

1058
00:47:02,739 --> 00:46:59,420
example of that that was 1896 1897 just

1059
00:47:07,449 --> 00:47:02,749
as so we were on the verge of flight to

1060
00:47:10,029 --> 00:47:07,459
the Wright brothers it was so I was just

1061
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:10,039
barely ahead of where we were what we

1062
00:47:15,609 --> 00:47:12,160
were seeing in the skies at that time

1063
00:47:17,979 --> 00:47:15,619
the same for modern-day flying saucers

1064
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:17,989
it seems like it's just slightly ahead I

1065
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:20,319
mean more than five years obviously but

1066
00:47:25,569 --> 00:47:23,359
I've always seen it as the phenomena

1067
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:25,579
tends to to mold itself into something

1068
00:47:30,670 --> 00:47:28,160
that's just where we're going it's

1069
00:47:33,309 --> 00:47:30,680
pulling us toward that that position and

1070
00:47:35,259 --> 00:47:33,319
it's it's bringing all that to public

1071
00:47:39,099 --> 00:47:35,269
consciousness and creating expectation

1072
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:39,109
and excitement and forward motion so

1073
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:40,880
it's something that kind of pulls us

1074
00:47:46,509 --> 00:47:43,910
along so you're implying here it's a

1075
00:47:48,910 --> 00:47:46,519
cultural phenomenon but it has to have

1076
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:48,920
something more than just a conventional

1077
00:47:54,279 --> 00:47:50,690
explanation because if it's always one

1078
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:54,289
step beyond then obviously there has to

1079
00:48:00,850 --> 00:47:56,510
be something more involved

1080
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:00,860
then basically cultists or pranksters or

1081
00:48:05,950 --> 00:48:03,050
something like that yes there's a lot

1082
00:48:09,070 --> 00:48:05,960
more involved this is I cannot stress

1083
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:09,080
how complex this issue is is just

1084
00:48:13,450 --> 00:48:11,690
enormous ly complex I mean I know

1085
00:48:16,330 --> 00:48:13,460
because I worked on it for almost 40

1086
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:16,340
years in a very sustained way and chris

1087
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:19,850
has worked on many many years sort of

1088
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:21,200
what like the more you know the more you

1089
00:48:28,330 --> 00:48:25,040
don't know and it's not a easy thing to

1090
00:48:30,610 --> 00:48:28,340
even define what the issue is that's why

1091
00:48:32,380 --> 00:48:30,620
I rarely do radio because it's my type

1092
00:48:34,540 --> 00:48:32,390
of theorizing speculation and

1093
00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:34,550
provisional theories don't lend

1094
00:48:42,270 --> 00:48:37,640
themselves that well to sound bites and

1095
00:48:49,810 --> 00:48:42,280
short snippets it's very very complex

1096
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:49,820
yeah nuanced give an example of for Jean

1097
00:48:59,320 --> 00:48:55,250
here people you know back in the let's

1098
00:49:02,410 --> 00:48:59,330
say 72 through 74 period when the cattle

1099
00:49:05,380 --> 00:49:02,420
mutilation meme really hadn't captured

1100
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:05,390
the imagination of the public like it

1101
00:49:11,410 --> 00:49:09,770
did from 75 through 79 for instance in

1102
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:11,420
Iowa as I mentioned earlier there were

1103
00:49:16,690 --> 00:49:14,450
there was a rash of caroling cases that

1104
00:49:19,150 --> 00:49:16,700
were associated with mystery helicopters

1105
00:49:22,060 --> 00:49:19,160
now Linda Howard would say well those

1106
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:22,070
were UFOs masking themselves as

1107
00:49:27,490 --> 00:49:24,920
helicopters yet we have a number of

1108
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:27,500
really sensational accounts

1109
00:49:33,820 --> 00:49:31,130
well-documented of actual gun battles

1110
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:33,830
between people aboard helicopters and

1111
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:35,810
ranches trying to protect their herd and

1112
00:49:40,330 --> 00:49:37,910
in one case that was even somebody on

1113
00:49:43,420 --> 00:49:40,340
the ground firing at the rancher now

1114
00:49:46,540 --> 00:49:43,430
correct me if I'm wrong but I yet to

1115
00:49:50,890 --> 00:49:46,550
encounter any sort of really slam-dunk

1116
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:50,900
case of a UFO encounter where the

1117
00:49:57,580 --> 00:49:54,260
occupants of the UFO were firing smaller

1118
00:50:00,580 --> 00:49:57,590
led the jet dials at the at the witness

1119
00:50:02,890 --> 00:50:00,590
so like David said and like I said

1120
00:50:04,690 --> 00:50:02,900
earlier for every Theory you come up

1121
00:50:06,730 --> 00:50:04,700
with there's plenty of evidence to

1122
00:50:08,410 --> 00:50:06,740
suggest that there's something else much

1123
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:08,420
more complicated going on in this

1124
00:50:12,550 --> 00:50:09,410
scenario

1125
00:50:14,410 --> 00:50:12,560
and it's I think Linda coined the term

1126
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:14,420
it's like a Hall of Mirrors with a

1127
00:50:19,780 --> 00:50:17,450
quicksand floor it doesn't matter which

1128
00:50:21,850 --> 00:50:19,790
direction you go in you're gonna you're

1129
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:21,860
gonna hit stumbling blocks along the way

1130
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:24,800
that negate a particular theory and I

1131
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:26,690
think it's it's really important that

1132
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:28,610
investigators and researchers are

1133
00:50:33,460 --> 00:50:30,530
open-minded enough and objective them

1134
00:50:36,220 --> 00:50:33,470
enough to entertain all the data and not

1135
00:50:37,830 --> 00:50:36,230
be selective not cherry-pick the cases

1136
00:50:42,490 --> 00:50:37,840
that tend to conform to your

1137
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:42,500
preconceived ideas or possible solutions

1138
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:46,490
to the scenario and uh it's just you go

1139
00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:49,490
round and round with this and and David

1140
00:50:57,220 --> 00:50:53,950
early on in 78 79 came up with the

1141
00:50:59,440 --> 00:50:57,230
observation that many of these areas of

1142
00:51:02,440 --> 00:50:59,450
high incidence in fact a vast majority

1143
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:02,450
of them appeared to be downwind and

1144
00:51:08,590 --> 00:51:05,510
downstream of where we mine uranium have

1145
00:51:11,980 --> 00:51:08,600
nuclear power plants weaponized nuclear

1146
00:51:14,970 --> 00:51:11,990
materials have them in missile silos I

1147
00:51:18,010 --> 00:51:14,980
mean the the missile fields around

1148
00:51:21,690 --> 00:51:18,020
southern Montana and northern Colorado

1149
00:51:24,550 --> 00:51:21,700
and so we really have to have to be

1150
00:51:26,410 --> 00:51:24,560
intellectually honest about observing

1151
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:26,420
these things we have David Perkins

1152
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:28,640
joining gene and Chris you're in the

1153
00:51:37,529 --> 00:51:30,400
para cast

1154
00:51:42,659 --> 00:51:41,120
little rides a little laugh but always

1155
00:51:46,349 --> 00:51:42,669
independent-minded

1156
00:51:50,189 --> 00:51:46,359
the genesis communications network GC

1157
00:51:51,989 --> 00:51:50,199
and if you want a business you need

1158
00:51:53,399 --> 00:51:51,999
customers right well your potential

1159
00:51:55,169 --> 00:51:53,409
customers are listening to this radio

1160
00:51:57,089 --> 00:51:55,179
program right now and I can help you

1161
00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:57,099
reach them hi I'm Matt Brown a national

1162
00:52:00,959 --> 00:51:58,630
marketing executive at the radio network

1163
00:52:02,909 --> 00:52:00,969
responsible for this program I can help

1164
00:52:04,679 --> 00:52:02,919
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1165
00:52:06,479 --> 00:52:04,689
that fits your budget large or small

1166
00:52:08,429 --> 00:52:06,489
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1167
00:52:09,899 --> 00:52:08,439
contact me to learn how radio

1168
00:52:13,979 --> 00:52:09,909
advertising can make your business more

1169
00:52:17,699 --> 00:52:13,989
profitable mb r o wer @ GC n live.com

1170
00:52:19,259 --> 00:52:17,709
that's M Brower @ GC and live.com hi

1171
00:52:20,819 --> 00:52:19,269
this is Ted Anderson have you ever

1172
00:52:22,349 --> 00:52:20,829
wondered why banks stockbrokers

1173
00:52:24,299 --> 00:52:22,359
investment advisors won't talk about

1174
00:52:26,819 --> 00:52:24,309
gold IRAs they've been available since

1175
00:52:28,649 --> 00:52:26,829
1986 yet the financial industry won't

1176
00:52:30,569 --> 00:52:28,659
recognize the value of gold for your

1177
00:52:32,819 --> 00:52:30,579
retirement goal does outperform paper

1178
00:52:34,469 --> 00:52:32,829
investments yet no word about IRAs

1179
00:52:38,189 --> 00:52:34,479
if you would like to have gold for your

1180
00:52:40,019 --> 00:52:38,199
retirement call 866 to 237 don't get

1181
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:40,029
left behind by rising inflation and low

1182
00:53:15,030 --> 00:52:44,079
returns call 866 to 237 secure your

1183
00:53:19,740 --> 00:53:17,100
act today to make sure that if it ever

1184
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:19,750
comes to that you and your family will

1185
00:53:24,780 --> 00:53:22,330
be provided for visit freeze-dry

1186
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:24,790
guide.com to look at the wide variety of

1187
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:27,010
survival foods available freeze-dried

1188
00:53:31,890 --> 00:53:29,650
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1189
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1190
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1191
00:53:39,060 --> 00:53:36,760
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1192
00:53:40,260 --> 00:53:39,070
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1193
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:40,270
guide.com

1194
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:46,960
or call toll-free 866 404 3-6 6-3 freeze

1195
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:55,300
[Applause]

1196
00:54:03,310 --> 00:53:59,010
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1197
00:54:12,110 --> 00:54:03,320
standard of paranormal radio and now

1198
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:12,120
here's Jane Steinberg on the para cast

1199
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:14,400
with Gene and Chris were very happy to

1200
00:54:20,060 --> 00:54:16,890
welcome David Perkins and I do hope that

1201
00:54:22,460 --> 00:54:20,070
having broken the ice with us here

1202
00:54:25,130 --> 00:54:22,470
breaking bread with me you're in the

1203
00:54:25,460 --> 00:54:25,140
power cast you're gonna come back I love

1204
00:54:27,020 --> 00:54:25,470
it

1205
00:54:30,170 --> 00:54:27,030
I'm glad to hear that because I love

1206
00:54:33,350 --> 00:54:30,180
having you on you're fun guy to talk to

1207
00:54:35,150 --> 00:54:33,360
and we're gonna really make this one of

1208
00:54:37,940 --> 00:54:35,160
the best episodes of the show ever

1209
00:54:40,580 --> 00:54:37,950
okay so we're seeing here that the

1210
00:54:42,530 --> 00:54:40,590
technology is one step beyond us the

1211
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:42,540
other theory is that cultists are

1212
00:54:47,660 --> 00:54:45,570
involved what's the status of that and

1213
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:47,670
what's the authority for it I would say

1214
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:51,210
the status is fairly low Chris I think

1215
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:54,000
tends to give a little more credence to

1216
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:55,650
some of these other theories than I do

1217
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:57,930
but the more I'm into this and the more

1218
00:55:03,530 --> 00:55:00,240
I think that is a real dead end and

1219
00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:03,540
there may have been in the past some

1220
00:55:08,140 --> 00:55:05,460
cult involvement with some form of

1221
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:08,150
animal sacrifice mutilation whatever

1222
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:11,250
that got law enforcement pretty excited

1223
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:13,440
there for a while but there again there

1224
00:55:17,210 --> 00:55:15,390
were no arrests there are no charges

1225
00:55:19,820 --> 00:55:17,220
there were no convictions it was all

1226
00:55:22,100 --> 00:55:19,830
rumor rumor rumor and everything seemed

1227
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,110
you know glom on to the mutilation

1228
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:24,480
phenomenon for its own purposes the Kris

1229
00:55:29,060 --> 00:55:26,670
talks about this in his book really well

1230
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:29,070
it's just it's so fascinating culturally

1231
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:31,680
how this happened and he unravels it

1232
00:55:37,340 --> 00:55:34,650
just beautifully but in terms of the the

1233
00:55:39,170 --> 00:55:37,350
the cultists angle I what I was going to

1234
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:39,180
say a minute ago about the theories was

1235
00:55:45,740 --> 00:55:42,630
that it's this elaborate system of red

1236
00:55:48,650 --> 00:55:45,750
herrings who are whatever is behind the

1237
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:48,660
mutilation seems to have incredible

1238
00:55:54,410 --> 00:55:51,690
insight into human psychology in terms

1239
00:55:57,470 --> 00:55:54,420
of how to keep emulations bubbling along

1240
00:56:00,200 --> 00:55:57,480
and you have the theories bouncing off

1241
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:00,210
of each other and providing say and a

1242
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:03,570
cult site somewhere near a cattle

1243
00:56:07,549 --> 00:56:05,850
mutilation and then everybody gets all

1244
00:56:09,949 --> 00:56:07,559
excited about that for a while

1245
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:09,959
or you know that something is planted

1246
00:56:14,569 --> 00:56:12,089
that just leaves everybody in the other

1247
00:56:16,489 --> 00:56:14,579
direction for quite a while and then one

1248
00:56:19,969 --> 00:56:16,499
factor that we haven't discussed is a

1249
00:56:22,189 --> 00:56:19,979
so-called giggle factor which is you

1250
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:22,199
know whoever's behind mutilations like I

1251
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,170
say has a really good eye you know

1252
00:56:29,630 --> 00:56:27,359
concept of what human psychology and

1253
00:56:32,329 --> 00:56:29,640
belief systems are for instance the

1254
00:56:35,150 --> 00:56:32,339
large hairy creatures the Bigfoot

1255
00:56:37,249 --> 00:56:35,160
creatures that appear sometimes in the

1256
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,259
accountant mutilation scenarios all you

1257
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:39,359
have to do is mention Bigfoot in your

1258
00:56:45,140 --> 00:56:41,729
description of cattle mutilations like

1259
00:56:46,849 --> 00:56:45,150
Newsweek did back in 74 you put that in

1260
00:56:48,979 --> 00:56:46,859
the first sentence of your article well

1261
00:56:52,339 --> 00:56:48,989
farmers are reporting cattle mutilations

1262
00:56:54,679 --> 00:56:52,349
and some even saw UFOs and some saw

1263
00:56:56,449 --> 00:56:54,689
large hairy creatures running around so

1264
00:56:59,079 --> 00:56:56,459
basically this is nonsense this is

1265
00:57:03,019 --> 00:56:59,089
nonsense therefore this is not right

1266
00:57:06,140 --> 00:57:03,029
exactly so it's it's quite whether it's

1267
00:57:07,789 --> 00:57:06,150
plate coincidence or design I tend to

1268
00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:07,799
think it's by design because it's just

1269
00:57:12,829 --> 00:57:10,380
so perfectly done that once you

1270
00:57:15,199 --> 00:57:12,839
introduce that giggle factor the public

1271
00:57:18,529 --> 00:57:15,209
reads and says oh dear this is not it's

1272
00:57:21,739 --> 00:57:18,539
all nonsense and that jiggle factor you

1273
00:57:24,169 --> 00:57:21,749
know goes on into almost all paranormal

1274
00:57:25,729 --> 00:57:24,179
phenomena the UFOs in particular some of

1275
00:57:28,699 --> 00:57:25,739
the more outrageous and high strange

1276
00:57:30,679 --> 00:57:28,709
cases seem perfectly designed to promote

1277
00:57:32,989 --> 00:57:30,689
that giggle factor which will then back

1278
00:57:34,789 --> 00:57:32,999
off the scientific community that may

1279
00:57:37,130 --> 00:57:34,799
have had some interest in pursuing it

1280
00:57:39,469 --> 00:57:37,140
once they see that giggle factor in

1281
00:57:41,449 --> 00:57:39,479
there they're out of it let me ask tree

1282
00:57:44,449 --> 00:57:41,459
flea about another theory which is that

1283
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:44,459
a rival rancher is at work here they

1284
00:57:48,529 --> 00:57:46,650
want to put out a competing business and

1285
00:57:57,439 --> 00:57:48,539
they're resorting to dirty tricks any

1286
00:58:01,059 --> 00:57:57,449
possibility of that in a word no ranch

1287
00:58:06,019 --> 00:58:01,069
cases in San Luis Valley I think are

1288
00:58:08,140 --> 00:58:06,029
very very suggestive of a large very

1289
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:08,150
wealthy Rancher trying to drive

1290
00:58:12,829 --> 00:58:10,650
neighboring ranches out of business with

1291
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:12,839
dozens and dozens of cases being

1292
00:58:17,839 --> 00:58:15,599
perpetrated and helicopters seen taking

1293
00:58:20,329 --> 00:58:17,849
off and landing at the rich ranchers

1294
00:58:21,380 --> 00:58:20,339
property helicopters that were thought

1295
00:58:23,660 --> 00:58:21,390
by law enforcement

1296
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:23,670
in the surrounding ranching community to

1297
00:58:28,130 --> 00:58:24,810
be directly involved with the

1298
00:58:30,650 --> 00:58:28,140
mutilations one fact that I uncovered

1299
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:30,660
during my research is very interesting

1300
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:32,640
that eighty percent of the small

1301
00:58:37,340 --> 00:58:34,410
ranching operations that were in

1302
00:58:39,620 --> 00:58:37,350
business in 1975 at the height of the

1303
00:58:42,890 --> 00:58:39,630
mutilation craze if you want to call it

1304
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:42,900
are out of business now and in their

1305
00:58:47,330 --> 00:58:45,330
place are these huge industrialized feed

1306
00:58:50,900 --> 00:58:47,340
Lots that now process up to four hundred

1307
00:58:52,540 --> 00:58:50,910
animals a head of cattle an hour so the

1308
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:52,550
I wouldn't totally discount the

1309
00:58:59,330 --> 00:58:56,010
political you know societal manipulation

1310
00:59:00,830 --> 00:58:59,340
or the intimidation angle I wouldn't I

1311
00:59:03,140 --> 00:59:00,840
wouldn't factor it completely out

1312
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:03,150
because there is a rising body of

1313
00:59:08,420 --> 00:59:06,240
evidence but however if you back off and

1314
00:59:11,860 --> 00:59:08,430
look at the entire the entirety of the

1315
00:59:15,230 --> 00:59:11,870
mutilation phenomenon worldwide it just

1316
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:15,240
thousands of cases thousands it seems

1317
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:17,280
like what you're describing is true and

1318
00:59:22,130 --> 00:59:20,010
in these specific instances and you can

1319
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:22,140
find on the periphery of this phenomenon

1320
00:59:26,780 --> 00:59:24,810
just about any scenario you want whether

1321
00:59:28,670 --> 00:59:26,790
that's actually at the heart of what is

1322
00:59:31,010 --> 00:59:28,680
behind the cattle mutilations I just

1323
00:59:31,610 --> 00:59:31,020
don't think so yeah well I would agree

1324
00:59:34,670 --> 00:59:31,620
with that

1325
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:34,680
and you cannot use that particular you

1326
00:59:40,370 --> 00:59:38,250
know scenario to describe the 1606 wave

1327
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:40,380
of sheep mutilations around London right

1328
00:59:46,430 --> 00:59:43,680
sheep but I think as I've always said

1329
00:59:48,620 --> 00:59:46,440
and I think you've agreed to a certain

1330
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:48,630
extent over the years that it appears to

1331
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:50,130
be multiple groups that are piggybacking

1332
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:52,890
their agenda on other agendas which they

1333
00:59:57,590 --> 00:59:55,410
may or may not be a you know totally

1334
00:59:59,930 --> 00:59:57,600
aware of you know what what the actual

1335
01:00:02,090 --> 00:59:59,940
motivation is for the other agendas but

1336
01:00:04,340 --> 01:00:02,100
it seems like we're seeing a layering of

1337
01:00:08,540 --> 01:00:04,350
misidentified scavenger action which is

1338
01:00:10,670 --> 01:00:08,550
many cases I think are just mistakenly

1339
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:10,680
referred to as cattle mutilations when

1340
01:00:15,950 --> 01:00:13,290
they're in in truth not and it does

1341
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:15,960
bolster the debunkers skeptical view

1342
01:00:21,830 --> 01:00:19,440
that all these cases are misidentified

1343
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:21,840
scavenger action it gives them at least

1344
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:24,960
some ammunition to work with but when

1345
01:00:30,530 --> 01:00:27,330
you see cut hair follicles when you see

1346
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:30,540
unborn fetuses mutilated and some of the

1347
01:00:33,860 --> 01:00:33,000
highest range cases that feature kademan

1348
01:00:36,110 --> 01:00:33,870
even

1349
01:00:39,250 --> 01:00:36,120
I think in one case we had mescaline was

1350
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:39,260
found in the post-mortem analysis of a

1351
01:00:45,380 --> 01:00:41,210
mutilated cow

1352
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:45,390
barbiturates anticoagulants hundreds of

1353
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:49,530
helicopter sightings these slam dunk any

1354
01:00:54,980 --> 01:00:51,810
sort of one-size-fits-all debunk a

1355
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:54,990
theory in explanation so through I think

1356
01:00:59,840 --> 01:00:56,730
David would agree that we're looking at

1357
01:01:01,850 --> 01:00:59,850
layering so multiple explanations may be

1358
01:01:03,620 --> 01:01:01,860
involved here but of course a lot of

1359
01:01:05,630 --> 01:01:03,630
people who cover stuff like this you're

1360
01:01:07,580 --> 01:01:05,640
looking for one answer there's got to be

1361
01:01:09,830 --> 01:01:07,590
one answer to explain everything once

1362
01:01:12,170 --> 01:01:09,840
they seize upon that one answer it

1363
01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:12,180
doesn't matter that there is evidence

1364
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:14,640
showing something else that's very true

1365
01:01:20,270 --> 01:01:17,280
and as I said just a while ago though I

1366
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:20,280
think you have to cut a clear aside what

1367
01:01:24,380 --> 01:01:21,930
you're gonna have to determine are

1368
01:01:26,690 --> 01:01:24,390
peripheral issues like the cult is

1369
01:01:29,980 --> 01:01:26,700
perhaps like running small ranchers out

1370
01:01:33,830 --> 01:01:29,990
of business and look at the body of

1371
01:01:36,140 --> 01:01:33,840
material that the mutilations make up

1372
01:01:38,810 --> 01:01:36,150
and I think Chris does such a great job

1373
01:01:42,430 --> 01:01:38,820
and you know the heart of the book page

1374
01:01:45,380 --> 01:01:42,440
after page after page of case studies

1375
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,390
it's just overwhelming to me when I had

1376
01:01:49,730 --> 01:01:47,280
actually ever seen that all put together

1377
01:01:51,890 --> 01:01:49,740
in one place and what you see that and

1378
01:01:54,890 --> 01:01:51,900
you realize for instance you factor in

1379
01:01:57,230 --> 01:01:54,900
something like Argentina which what was

1380
01:01:58,850 --> 01:01:57,240
the number of the 3,000 well yeah that

1381
01:02:00,980 --> 01:01:58,860
was an estimate but we really don't know

1382
01:02:03,500 --> 01:02:00,990
because it's obvious a lot of cases

1383
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:03,510
weren't reported but you know you must

1384
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:06,480
also have the caveat here that right as

1385
01:02:10,730 --> 01:02:08,850
foot-and-mouth disease an amazing

1386
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:10,740
outbreak that was devastating to

1387
01:02:15,290 --> 01:02:13,170
ranching in South America right at the

1388
01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:15,300
end of a wave of foot-and-mouth disease

1389
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:17,910
and they thought they were had finally

1390
01:02:21,770 --> 01:02:20,490
erratic eradicated it boom that's when

1391
01:02:24,350 --> 01:02:21,780
you had the start of the wave of

1392
01:02:27,950 --> 01:02:24,360
mutilations in Argentina and Brazil and

1393
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:27,960
and then peripheral cases nearby Uruguay

1394
01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:30,480
and other other South American countries

1395
01:02:37,340 --> 01:02:33,870
so there's always this kind of the

1396
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:37,350
phenomenon gives itself an out in and it

1397
01:02:42,410 --> 01:02:40,050
shoots off into various directions in in

1398
01:02:43,970 --> 01:02:42,420
the North American cases in the 70s you

1399
01:02:46,630 --> 01:02:43,980
had a lot of mystery helicopter

1400
01:02:49,749 --> 01:02:46,640
sightings you could almost say in the

1401
01:02:52,210 --> 01:02:49,759
waves in South America from 2002 to the

1402
01:02:55,089 --> 01:02:52,220
present day actually but for those first

1403
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:55,099
three years 2002 to 2005

1404
01:03:00,729 --> 01:02:57,650
you have the substitute for the mystery

1405
01:03:03,099 --> 01:03:00,739
helicopter with UFO reports so know how

1406
01:03:05,979 --> 01:03:03,109
pending on where these waves occur you

1407
01:03:08,859 --> 01:03:05,989
you tend to see similar descriptions

1408
01:03:10,569 --> 01:03:08,869
that are unique for that particular area

1409
01:03:12,339 --> 01:03:10,579
in that wave in the case of South

1410
01:03:14,799 --> 01:03:12,349
America UFOs in the case of the Midwest

1411
01:03:17,079 --> 01:03:14,809
in the 70s mystery helicopters and of

1412
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:17,089
course some UFO reports mystery lights

1413
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:20,480
that sort of thing so whatever happens

1414
01:03:25,420 --> 01:03:23,089
wherever it happens there's always at

1415
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:25,430
analyzing body of evidence that shoots

1416
01:03:29,950 --> 01:03:27,410
you off in a particular direction and

1417
01:03:31,359 --> 01:03:29,960
get you you know caught up in trying to

1418
01:03:33,460 --> 01:03:31,369
prove or disprove that particular

1419
01:03:36,309 --> 01:03:33,470
element we have more to come with David

1420
01:03:38,030 --> 01:03:36,319
Perkins and Jean and Chris so much more

1421
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you're in the para cast

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was a critically acclaimed success and

1435
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now there's the coming of the protectors

1436
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1437
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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

1438
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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

1439
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because evil forces on our distant

1440
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

1441
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this is gripping science fiction of the

1442
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classic kind attack of the rock OIG's

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and the coming of the protectors

1444
01:04:44,429 --> 01:04:41,859
find out more at Rocko it's calm that's

1445
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rock oh it's our Ock oids

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1448
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Renaissance from the Industrial Age to

1449
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:53,589
the Space Age Gold has weathered the

1450
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test of time for 6,000 years gold has

1451
01:05:00,239 --> 01:04:58,179
remained the ultimate store of wealth

1452
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according to the world volt Council in

1453
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the u.s. mint demand is at an all-time

1454
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high the stage is being set for the

1455
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reemergence of gold as the common sense

1456
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alternative to a Fiat paper currency

1457
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that gets weaker every day

1458
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Midas Resources is proud to offer the

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hard-hitting report that arms you with a

1460
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1461
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1465
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1466
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stressful issues are always popping up

1467
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have you ever been treated unfairly by

1468
01:05:57,550 --> 01:05:55,790
someone have you ever been overcharged

1469
01:05:59,620 --> 01:05:57,560
for a repair have you ever signed a

1470
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contract or a document worried about

1471
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identity theft how many times have you

1472
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been in those unique situations where

1473
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you just wanted to call an attorney to

1474
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:06,590
find out if you're right or wrong

1475
01:06:10,180 --> 01:06:08,930
or what your legal rights are but every

1476
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:10,190
time you think about calling an attorney

1477
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what do you think about first that's

1478
01:06:14,830 --> 01:06:12,890
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1479
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1480
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1490
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1491
01:06:48,310 --> 01:06:45,800
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1492
01:06:50,350 --> 01:06:48,320
will vary from case to case there are

1493
01:06:52,780 --> 01:06:50,360
many things the human body can do very

1494
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:52,790
well but maintaining the proper pH level

1495
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isn't always one of them that's where

1496
01:06:58,750 --> 01:06:56,660
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1497
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1499
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1500
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1501
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1514
01:07:56,820 --> 01:07:54,660
this is the wrong flyer Clouser of the

1515
01:07:59,870 --> 01:07:56,830
UFO encyclopedia in other books when

1516
01:08:08,469 --> 01:07:59,880
you're listening to the podcast

1517
01:08:11,509 --> 01:08:08,479
[Music]

1518
01:08:14,239 --> 01:08:11,519
okay we're not giving three glasses of

1519
01:08:17,030 --> 01:08:14,249
milk with this you know I just want to

1520
01:08:19,339 --> 01:08:17,040
tell you something Chris in helping you

1521
01:08:21,589 --> 01:08:19,349
put together the book doing the desktop

1522
01:08:24,740 --> 01:08:21,599
publishing and everything stalking the

1523
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:24,750
herd when I read the sections on the way

1524
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:30,329
we deal with meat production I wanted to

1525
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,799
become a vegetarian real fast that I had

1526
01:08:38,839 --> 01:08:36,960
a hamburger in careful gene we don't

1527
01:08:40,700 --> 01:08:38,849
want the one of the largest political

1528
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:40,710
lobbies in the country to be listen to

1529
01:08:44,209 --> 01:08:42,449
the show and slap you with an Oprah suit

1530
01:08:45,769 --> 01:08:44,219
well they won't even advertise you know

1531
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:45,779
they can always have counter program and

1532
01:08:50,569 --> 01:08:48,480
say look you know beef it's what's for

1533
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:50,579
dinner we're going to advertise on the

1534
01:08:56,209 --> 01:08:53,730
show to express our point of view yeah

1535
01:08:58,220 --> 01:08:56,219
yeah no we can't get Robert Mitchum to

1536
01:09:00,410 --> 01:08:58,230
do the tag line anymore because he's

1537
01:09:03,049 --> 01:09:00,420
long gone well yet this is a paranormal

1538
01:09:05,089 --> 01:09:03,059
radio show let's just call him back I

1539
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:05,099
was thinking last week when we had fate

1540
01:09:08,930 --> 01:09:06,960
magazine and Phyllis called E the

1541
01:09:11,180 --> 01:09:08,940
publisher was talking about this medium

1542
01:09:13,490 --> 01:09:11,190
she knows maybe we could call up Steve

1543
01:09:19,849 --> 01:09:13,500
Jobs and see what he thinks of Apple

1544
01:09:21,530 --> 01:09:19,859
since he died well I don't know if

1545
01:09:24,589 --> 01:09:21,540
that's gonna be a fruitful Avenue to go

1546
01:09:26,660 --> 01:09:24,599
down I have had people remote view some

1547
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:26,670
scenarios that I investigated in the San

1548
01:09:30,559 --> 01:09:28,650
Luis Valley and was always it was

1549
01:09:33,919 --> 01:09:30,569
amusing to see the kinds of results that

1550
01:09:36,859 --> 01:09:33,929
they would come up with but you know

1551
01:09:38,180 --> 01:09:36,869
again I I think what really should come

1552
01:09:40,839 --> 01:09:38,190
through loud and clear to the listeners

1553
01:09:44,299 --> 01:09:40,849
out there is that this is not a simple

1554
01:09:46,999 --> 01:09:44,309
cut and dried scenario it is incredibly

1555
01:09:50,510 --> 01:09:47,009
complicated incredibly nuanced you

1556
01:09:53,629 --> 01:09:50,520
really have to really have a full grasp

1557
01:09:54,830 --> 01:09:53,639
of the enormity of these thousands and

1558
01:09:58,760 --> 01:09:54,840
thousands of cases that have been

1559
01:10:00,919 --> 01:09:58,770
reported for decades and it's only when

1560
01:10:03,169 --> 01:10:00,929
you really have a sense of the full

1561
01:10:05,629 --> 01:10:03,179
totality of this mystery do you really

1562
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:05,639
appreciate how mysterious it really is

1563
01:10:10,250 --> 01:10:07,440
and I think David would agree with that

1564
01:10:12,979 --> 01:10:10,260
oh yeah now let me ask you something

1565
01:10:15,070 --> 01:10:12,989
here it's perceived also that cattle

1566
01:10:17,620 --> 01:10:15,080
mutilations kind of peaked in this

1567
01:10:20,170 --> 01:10:17,630
in the 80s and there abouts do we still

1568
01:10:22,420 --> 01:10:20,180
hear about them in fairly large numbers

1569
01:10:24,850 --> 01:10:22,430
yeah well let David take that yeah oh

1570
01:10:27,730 --> 01:10:24,860
definitely not large numbers though I

1571
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:27,740
wouldn't say well in South America aside

1572
01:10:32,050 --> 01:10:29,810
and the reality thousands I mean that

1573
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:32,060
about what mazing numbers of cases down

1574
01:10:37,030 --> 01:10:33,890
there terms of the United States it's

1575
01:10:40,060 --> 01:10:37,040
one here one there one over in Montana

1576
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:40,070
went over in Kansas it's not like waves

1577
01:10:45,820 --> 01:10:43,010
like we're counties in Colorado in the

1578
01:10:48,100 --> 01:10:45,830
70s we're having night II and one year

1579
01:10:51,340 --> 01:10:48,110
those days are not here but there's

1580
01:10:53,140 --> 01:10:51,350
there's still just a few out there just

1581
01:10:55,540 --> 01:10:53,150
enough to make you think that it

1582
01:10:58,000 --> 01:10:55,550
whatever it is is still going on in this

1583
01:11:01,150 --> 01:10:58,010
country especially now apparently in

1584
01:11:03,850 --> 01:11:01,160
South America well in the 90s too we did

1585
01:11:07,210 --> 01:11:03,860
see quite an upsurge of cases or maybe

1586
01:11:10,330 --> 01:11:07,220
it was just an upsurge in in in efforts

1587
01:11:12,370 --> 01:11:10,340
by people like myself and in you we did

1588
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:12,380
uncover quite a number of cases between

1589
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:16,370
92 and 96 that four-year period had

1590
01:11:21,820 --> 01:11:19,760
dozens and dozens of cases many that I

1591
01:11:25,540 --> 01:11:21,830
had personally investigated several that

1592
01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:25,550
you actually went on David and I always

1593
01:11:30,580 --> 01:11:28,880
have our eyes open for potential reports

1594
01:11:32,860 --> 01:11:30,590
we have a network of sources out there

1595
01:11:36,220 --> 01:11:32,870
that for years has been feeding us you

1596
01:11:38,770 --> 01:11:36,230
know potential cases Linda Howe has done

1597
01:11:41,170 --> 01:11:38,780
a good job of monitoring the ranchlands

1598
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:41,180
here in the United States and in South

1599
01:11:44,970 --> 01:11:41,810
America

1600
01:11:48,730 --> 01:11:44,980
Scott Corrales down at the Journal of

1601
01:11:50,650 --> 01:11:48,740
Institute of Hispanic I what's called

1602
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:50,660
Expo kata I think his publication is

1603
01:11:59,020 --> 01:11:55,370
many many reports and stories as recent

1604
01:12:00,910 --> 01:11:59,030
as you know we had a number of mutilated

1605
01:12:02,940 --> 01:12:00,920
cattle that washed ashore in Sweden and

1606
01:12:06,310 --> 01:12:02,950
Denmark just a couple of months ago

1607
01:12:10,150 --> 01:12:06,320
which may or may not have had a mundane

1608
01:12:12,670 --> 01:12:10,160
sort of prosaic explanation but we were

1609
01:12:15,100 --> 01:12:12,680
not seeing the numbers that we saw in

1610
01:12:17,140 --> 01:12:15,110
the 70s here in the United States I I

1611
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:17,150
mean I think I was looking for our

1612
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:19,130
record on a single night I think it was

1613
01:12:23,740 --> 01:12:21,890
six different states I think David that

1614
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:23,750
reported cases in a single 24-hour

1615
01:12:28,690 --> 01:12:27,890
period at one point there was a major

1616
01:12:32,430 --> 01:12:28,700
upsurge in

1617
01:12:34,990 --> 01:12:32,440
seventy-nine of cases that actually

1618
01:12:37,990 --> 01:12:35,000
raided an entire chapter in the book I

1619
01:12:40,570 --> 01:12:38,000
had no idea that 79 was such a a major

1620
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:40,580
flap year for for the mutilation

1621
01:12:45,700 --> 01:12:43,010
phenomenon let me ask you a ask question

1622
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:45,710
here Chris I like to hear some of our

1623
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:48,320
listener responses in a moment and that

1624
01:12:53,650 --> 01:12:51,290
is you mentioned earlier about cattle

1625
01:12:56,530 --> 01:12:53,660
mutilations occurring in or around

1626
01:12:58,720 --> 01:12:56,540
nuclear facilities yeah let me let me

1627
01:13:00,430 --> 01:12:58,730
run with that one sure David Chris

1628
01:13:03,940 --> 01:13:00,440
brought that up before the last break

1629
01:13:07,930 --> 01:13:03,950
and that was a theory that I came up

1630
01:13:09,430 --> 01:13:07,940
with in the late 70s which I just went

1631
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:09,440
over all that material last night and

1632
01:13:14,440 --> 01:13:11,170
I'm still pretty amazed by it when he

1633
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:14,450
Seattle again basically the idea was

1634
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:17,210
that what the parts missing on the

1635
01:13:22,830 --> 01:13:19,520
cattle were consistent with what one

1636
01:13:25,780 --> 01:13:22,840
would take to analyze the extent of

1637
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:25,790
nuclear contamination and a living

1638
01:13:30,430 --> 01:13:28,850
entity people would say you know in

1639
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:30,440
those days well if the government wants

1640
01:13:34,660 --> 01:13:32,810
to experiment on cows why don't they

1641
01:13:36,310 --> 01:13:34,670
just have their own herd over there in

1642
01:13:41,410 --> 01:13:36,320
Kansas somewhere and experiment all they

1643
01:13:43,210 --> 01:13:41,420
want but obviously the idea is that the

1644
01:13:45,610 --> 01:13:43,220
cows were important where they are in

1645
01:13:47,740 --> 01:13:45,620
the environment it seemed to me and if

1646
01:13:49,990 --> 01:13:47,750
you I put I put together this big map

1647
01:13:51,940 --> 01:13:50,000
back then with all these little pins in

1648
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:51,950
it you know I've marked every single

1649
01:13:58,780 --> 01:13:55,010
mutilation and every single uranium

1650
01:14:01,000 --> 01:13:58,790
processing milling nuclear weapons

1651
01:14:04,210 --> 01:14:01,010
testing anything having to do with a

1652
01:14:05,470 --> 01:14:04,220
nuclear cycle and I looked at that put

1653
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:05,480
it all together just because I need

1654
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:07,250
visual aids sometimes to look at these

1655
01:14:09,490 --> 01:14:07,730
things

1656
01:14:11,140 --> 01:14:09,500
and I thought well this is really

1657
01:14:14,050 --> 01:14:11,150
interesting but there sure are a lot of

1658
01:14:16,690 --> 01:14:14,060
coincidences here about where these

1659
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:16,700
mutilations happen and these nuclear

1660
01:14:23,290 --> 01:14:19,130
sites I was particularly intrigued by

1661
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:23,300
the Upper Midwest where the the nuclear

1662
01:14:28,470 --> 01:14:25,130
plants were just coming online in the

1663
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:28,480
late 60s and early 70s in particular

1664
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:32,330
Minnesota Illinois these plants would

1665
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:36,440
come online say in 1970 and and 19th you

1666
01:14:40,270 --> 01:14:39,050
know the same year or weeks later after

1667
01:14:41,530 --> 01:14:40,280
it came online there'd be a cattle

1668
01:14:44,700 --> 01:14:41,540
mutilation

1669
01:14:49,210 --> 01:14:44,710
wind and downstream is their percentage

1670
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:49,220
of cattle mutilations that occur near

1671
01:14:54,610 --> 01:14:51,890
such facilities that you can compare

1672
01:14:56,230 --> 01:14:54,620
with the number that occur elsewhere in

1673
01:15:00,600 --> 01:14:56,240
other words is it a very high proportion

1674
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:00,610
I would say it is looking at the map

1675
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:02,690
when you can really see it all spread

1676
01:15:07,330 --> 01:15:05,450
out into Canada for instance and then

1677
01:15:11,410 --> 01:15:07,340
the information that came to me later

1678
01:15:14,110 --> 01:15:11,420
about where the say the nuclear test in

1679
01:15:16,660 --> 01:15:14,120
Nevada where all that radiation ended up

1680
01:15:19,210 --> 01:15:16,670
I was amazed that so much of a blue

1681
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:19,220
north into Canada into Alberta

1682
01:15:26,110 --> 01:15:22,400
Saskatchewan which have been you know

1683
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:26,120
terrific cattle mutilation hotspots and

1684
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:28,610
the anomaly that's presented there that

1685
01:15:32,230 --> 01:15:30,650
Chris and I discussed quite a bit we're

1686
01:15:34,930 --> 01:15:32,240
always after the anomaly within the

1687
01:15:36,970 --> 01:15:34,940
anomaly because that's that's fruitful

1688
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:36,980
but if you look at the map there there

1689
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:40,930
are very few relatively mutilation cases

1690
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:43,970
upwind from the Nevada Test Site for

1691
01:15:49,540 --> 01:15:46,250
instance California is virtually

1692
01:15:52,570 --> 01:15:49,550
untouched Oregon Washington very few

1693
01:15:55,270 --> 01:15:52,580
Arizona very few the prevailing winds

1694
01:15:56,620 --> 01:15:55,280
didn't generally sweep over Arizona but

1695
01:15:58,600 --> 01:15:56,630
if you file if you look at the map of

1696
01:16:00,270 --> 01:15:58,610
where the radiation ended up that's

1697
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:00,280
across the United States and in Canada

1698
01:16:06,730 --> 01:16:02,930
that were those were the highest

1699
01:16:08,770 --> 01:16:06,740
concentrations of mutilations so it's

1700
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:08,780
still an anomaly that I can't quite

1701
01:16:14,020 --> 01:16:10,490
figure out how to explain any other way

1702
01:16:16,180 --> 01:16:14,030
why California for instance is is

1703
01:16:19,810 --> 01:16:16,190
relatively unscathed there are a couple

1704
01:16:22,180 --> 01:16:19,820
there actually that were in proximity to

1705
01:16:24,460 --> 01:16:22,190
their nuclear power plants but yesterday

1706
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:24,470
for Oregon and Washington let's break it

1707
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:27,050
here david perkins joins gene and chris

1708
01:16:36,860 --> 01:16:29,600
we're talking about cattle mutilations

1709
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independently leading the way for the

1710
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nation compelling talk for every

1711
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1742
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1743
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someone must be home watching TV so

1744
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they'll likely move on to an easier

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1762
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1763
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1779
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1780
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1781
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1785
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1786
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1787
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doorstep we are now forced into a system

1788
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1789
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1790
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1791
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1792
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1799
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1807
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1808
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:53,130
this is Don Ecker and you are tuned in

1809
01:20:58,009 --> 01:20:55,650
to the para cast let me tell you what

1810
01:21:01,520 --> 01:20:58,019
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

1811
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:01,530
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

1812
01:21:08,060 --> 01:21:05,489
that George Noory reason David I asked

1813
01:21:09,950 --> 01:21:08,070
about the incidence of cattle

1814
01:21:12,140 --> 01:21:09,960
mutilations near nuclear facilities was

1815
01:21:14,180 --> 01:21:12,150
because of the book UFOs and nukes by

1816
01:21:17,660 --> 01:21:14,190
Robert Hastings right where you have a

1817
01:21:20,990 --> 01:21:17,670
high percentage of UFO cases in and

1818
01:21:24,919 --> 01:21:21,000
around nuclear installations yes it's

1819
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:24,929
been a theme from the very beginning the

1820
01:21:30,799 --> 01:21:27,690
correlation between UFOs and nukes and

1821
01:21:33,410 --> 01:21:30,809
and then I that was part of my knowing

1822
01:21:35,359 --> 01:21:33,420
that at the time I was part of my logic

1823
01:21:37,009 --> 01:21:35,369
for well let's see if this this

1824
01:21:39,049 --> 01:21:37,019
continues on into the mutilation

1825
01:21:42,759 --> 01:21:39,059
phenomena which to my mind it did to a

1826
01:21:45,620 --> 01:21:42,769
great extent there were 84 cases within

1827
01:21:48,709 --> 01:21:45,630
the missile fields surrounding miles

1828
01:21:51,259 --> 01:21:48,719
from Air Force Base and the surrounding

1829
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:51,269
bases that kind of supported the the the

1830
01:21:56,390 --> 01:21:53,449
extensive missile fields there were

1831
01:21:59,209 --> 01:21:56,400
Nebraska Colorado and in Montana come

1832
01:22:01,459 --> 01:21:59,219
together there and in Wyoming you know I

1833
01:22:02,990 --> 01:22:01,469
asked this when we have Robert Hastings

1834
01:22:05,450 --> 01:22:03,000
on on the show and he said there were at

1835
01:22:07,490 --> 01:22:05,460
least 50 and then doing further research

1836
01:22:09,319 --> 01:22:07,500
I found out there as many as 80 that

1837
01:22:12,830 --> 01:22:09,329
were within there the actual missile

1838
01:22:15,259 --> 01:22:12,840
fields oh boy that was a showstopper you

1839
01:22:17,330 --> 01:22:15,269
know what it's hard it sounds like it

1840
01:22:17,879 --> 01:22:17,340
david's the kind of person is really

1841
01:22:19,529 --> 01:22:17,889
hard

1842
01:22:23,459 --> 01:22:19,539
say something where he'll be stopped in

1843
01:22:25,279 --> 01:22:23,469
his tracks no I'm not stop there's kind

1844
01:22:27,889 --> 01:22:25,289
of two different things going on here

1845
01:22:32,069 --> 01:22:27,899
with that with that nuclear connection

1846
01:22:34,979 --> 01:22:32,079
one is what I just described as the

1847
01:22:37,889 --> 01:22:34,989
environmental monitoring to get off in

1848
01:22:41,159 --> 01:22:37,899
another direction briefly it was a

1849
01:22:43,290 --> 01:22:41,169
theory that I was proposing in the 70s

1850
01:22:46,799 --> 01:22:43,300
it got some fair amount of press

1851
01:22:50,219 --> 01:22:46,809
coverage you had Greg Valdez on the

1852
01:22:52,319 --> 01:22:50,229
other day and I was in close contact

1853
01:22:53,790 --> 01:22:52,329
with his father Gabe el Dez in those

1854
01:22:55,500 --> 01:22:53,800
days I was feeding him all of that

1855
01:22:57,659 --> 01:22:55,510
information about the nuclear connection

1856
01:23:00,239 --> 01:22:57,669
the last time I ever talked to Gabe he

1857
01:23:03,810 --> 01:23:00,249
had called me up to get some documents

1858
01:23:07,529 --> 01:23:03,820
that I had on actually Malmstrom Air

1859
01:23:09,449 --> 01:23:07,539
Force Base at he was working for Ned's

1860
01:23:10,529 --> 01:23:09,459
and I asked him before we hung up I said

1861
01:23:12,989 --> 01:23:10,539
well what can you tell me about your

1862
01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:12,999
work with Ned's and he said I can't

1863
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:14,169
really tell you much but I'll tell you

1864
01:23:20,009 --> 01:23:17,050
one thing Dave you were right about a

1865
01:23:23,219 --> 01:23:20,019
lot of that stuff and I went what what

1866
01:23:25,850 --> 01:23:23,229
stuff yeah and I presume he was talking

1867
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:25,860
about the the nuclear connection and

1868
01:23:30,449 --> 01:23:28,090
yeah that's all he would say and that's

1869
01:23:32,100 --> 01:23:30,459
the last time I ever talked there and as

1870
01:23:35,909 --> 01:23:32,110
Greg said in his interview the other day

1871
01:23:37,169 --> 01:23:35,919
that chair that Ned's I guess and in

1872
01:23:38,939 --> 01:23:37,179
cave in particular came to the

1873
01:23:40,919 --> 01:23:38,949
conclusion that it was environmental

1874
01:23:44,639 --> 01:23:40,929
nuclear monitoring from the gas buggy

1875
01:23:47,609 --> 01:23:44,649
sighted near Dulce and that eventually

1876
01:23:49,679 --> 01:23:47,619
it switched over to the state of the Red

1877
01:23:52,229 --> 01:23:49,689
River New Mexico area where there was a

1878
01:23:53,729 --> 01:23:52,239
slight different technique and he

1879
01:23:57,199 --> 01:23:53,739
claimed that that was because they were

1880
01:24:02,399 --> 01:23:57,209
at that point it switch to testing

1881
01:24:05,790 --> 01:24:02,409
microwave type weapons so that that

1882
01:24:08,580 --> 01:24:05,800
nuclear thing still exists in that

1883
01:24:11,100 --> 01:24:08,590
mythology but what Christmas is talking

1884
01:24:13,649 --> 01:24:11,110
about Malmstrom and nuclear facilities

1885
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:13,659
of that nature to me that doesn't seem

1886
01:24:20,569 --> 01:24:16,169
like an environmental monitoring issue

1887
01:24:23,549 --> 01:24:20,579
in terms of penetrating nuclear and

1888
01:24:27,839 --> 01:24:23,559
tactics that is an intimidation and that

1889
01:24:29,639 --> 01:24:27,849
is and it carries over into so many

1890
01:24:31,020 --> 01:24:29,649
places again I was looking at this last

1891
01:24:33,670 --> 01:24:31,030
night

1892
01:24:36,130 --> 01:24:33,680
almost every missile field in the United

1893
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:36,140
States is just riddled with cattle

1894
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:38,930
mutilation activity and or helicopters

1895
01:24:46,140 --> 01:24:40,970
UFOs and so on

1896
01:24:48,790 --> 01:24:46,150
and to me that is some sort of symbolic

1897
01:24:51,340 --> 01:24:48,800
communication it's like hey forget it

1898
01:24:52,870 --> 01:24:51,350
your your weapons are nonsense you know

1899
01:24:54,460 --> 01:24:52,880
we can fly around and do anything we

1900
01:24:59,920 --> 01:24:54,470
want you can chase it you'll never catch

1901
01:25:02,440 --> 01:24:59,930
us it's it's a statement of how impotent

1902
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:02,450
our defenses and our weaponry really are

1903
01:25:05,650 --> 01:25:04,130
so there are two different things

1904
01:25:07,420 --> 01:25:05,660
happening I don't think of there exactly

1905
01:25:08,050 --> 01:25:07,430
monitoring the environment around the

1906
01:25:11,740 --> 01:25:08,060
ice

1907
01:25:15,220 --> 01:25:11,750
well that that also bolsters Linda and

1908
01:25:18,070 --> 01:25:15,230
other et adherence in terms of their

1909
01:25:21,250 --> 01:25:18,080
theory that this is all ETS just running

1910
01:25:22,390 --> 01:25:21,260
roughshod over any semblance of command

1911
01:25:24,910 --> 01:25:22,400
and control that we have over our

1912
01:25:27,310 --> 01:25:24,920
airspace and and like you said rendering

1913
01:25:29,470 --> 01:25:27,320
any thoughts of being able to defend

1914
01:25:32,410 --> 01:25:29,480
ourselves with nuclear weapons as you

1915
01:25:35,380 --> 01:25:32,420
know ridiculous and in that does make

1916
01:25:37,150 --> 01:25:35,390
some sense but you know you have you

1917
01:25:39,250 --> 01:25:37,160
know the dulce cases for instance you

1918
01:25:41,770 --> 01:25:39,260
mentioned project gas buggy for those of

1919
01:25:44,830 --> 01:25:41,780
you out there who are not aware of what

1920
01:25:47,140 --> 01:25:44,840
that was it was the first of I think a

1921
01:25:51,030 --> 01:25:47,150
schedule of four underground nuclear

1922
01:25:54,610 --> 01:25:51,040
detonations that were the first real

1923
01:25:58,480 --> 01:25:54,620
attempt under the auspices of operation

1924
01:26:00,790 --> 01:25:58,490
plowshare to use nuclear weapons in a

1925
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:00,800
civilian capacity and along with the El

1926
01:26:07,530 --> 01:26:03,890
Paso gas company and one of our national

1927
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:07,540
labs they detonated a 29 Megaton nuclear

1928
01:26:14,020 --> 01:26:11,210
device 4,000 feet down

1929
01:26:16,060 --> 01:26:14,030
just 20 miles I think southwest of Dulce

1930
01:26:17,890 --> 01:26:16,070
to free up a gas deposit and what did

1931
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:17,900
they do they ended up here radiating all

1932
01:26:22,900 --> 01:26:19,690
the gas which they couldn't use and

1933
01:26:25,620 --> 01:26:22,910
compromised the the water table and now

1934
01:26:28,810 --> 01:26:25,630
we have these these highly elevated

1935
01:26:30,220 --> 01:26:28,820
levels of environmental cancers that are

1936
01:26:35,470 --> 01:26:30,230
springing up around the Hickory Apache

1937
01:26:37,660 --> 01:26:35,480
reservation that surrounds Dulce so you

1938
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:37,670
know you have on one hand you have this

1939
01:26:43,180 --> 01:26:41,210
indication that possibly the cases that

1940
01:26:44,770 --> 01:26:43,190
gave out des was very very closely

1941
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:44,780
involved with

1942
01:26:50,919 --> 01:26:48,050
in the 70s into the 80s on the Gomez

1943
01:26:53,709 --> 01:26:50,929
ranch could possibly be an environmental

1944
01:26:56,740 --> 01:26:53,719
monitoring process but at the same time

1945
01:26:59,979 --> 01:26:56,750
gaben as we found out with our interview

1946
01:27:02,410 --> 01:26:59,989
with Gregg Gabe also suspected that

1947
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:02,420
there was some sort of other exotic

1948
01:27:07,570 --> 01:27:04,730
aerial technology that possibly the

1949
01:27:09,580 --> 01:27:07,580
government was was using to to help

1950
01:27:12,310 --> 01:27:09,590
perpetrate some of these cases and so

1951
01:27:16,870 --> 01:27:12,320
all this stuff is like a tightly wound

1952
01:27:18,430 --> 01:27:16,880
sort of Gordian knot that yeah you know

1953
01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:18,440
I don't know how many times we could say

1954
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:22,000
how how confusing and just could

1955
01:27:28,620 --> 01:27:25,489
confounding this whole thing is but you

1956
01:27:31,540 --> 01:27:28,630
really have to slowly try to unravel

1957
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:31,550
these particular threads of the knot and

1958
01:27:36,129 --> 01:27:34,130
that's why you know I chose that that

1959
01:27:38,500 --> 01:27:36,139
subtitle of unraveling the cattle

1960
01:27:41,590 --> 01:27:38,510
mutilations mystery because you really

1961
01:27:44,020 --> 01:27:41,600
do have to be intellectually honest and

1962
01:27:47,050 --> 01:27:44,030
and and really take each one of these

1963
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:47,060
threads and see how they coexist how

1964
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:49,130
they may bounce off of one another and

1965
01:27:53,709 --> 01:27:50,810
how they may be connected or

1966
01:27:56,379 --> 01:27:53,719
disconnected from one another just to

1967
01:28:00,340 --> 01:27:56,389
bring our listeners up to date we had

1968
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:00,350
Greg Valdez as a guest on the podcast

1969
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:04,489
August 4th 2013 so if you want to

1970
01:28:08,350 --> 01:28:06,530
download the episode still there just to

1971
01:28:10,030 --> 01:28:08,360
let you know a little bit later by the

1972
01:28:13,090 --> 01:28:10,040
way we'll start getting into some of

1973
01:28:15,010 --> 01:28:13,100
your questions from forum dr. Perik

1974
01:28:16,510 --> 01:28:15,020
asked on I think a lot of them been

1975
01:28:19,090 --> 01:28:16,520
answered just by the nature of our

1976
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:19,100
conversation writers yeah that's true

1977
01:28:22,870 --> 01:28:20,570
but there's some there's some good ones

1978
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:22,880
that I think we should kind of bounce

1979
01:28:31,990 --> 01:28:28,850
off David here okay yeah if you want I

1980
01:28:36,310 --> 01:28:32,000
can go ahead and in start in do we have

1981
01:28:38,050 --> 01:28:36,320
time we have time to start okay here's a

1982
01:28:40,300 --> 01:28:38,060
good one from burnt State who's one of

1983
01:28:43,629 --> 01:28:40,310
our real active posters at forum dr.

1984
01:28:45,370 --> 01:28:43,639
Peric ascom and he always comes up with

1985
01:28:49,030 --> 01:28:45,380
interesting questions and I thank you

1986
01:28:50,709 --> 01:28:49,040
again for for posting these here's a

1987
01:28:53,050 --> 01:28:50,719
good one for you David attending

1988
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:53,060
mutilated cow bodies over the years has

1989
01:28:57,089 --> 01:28:55,850
to take a toll on researchers towards

1990
01:28:59,609 --> 01:28:57,099
the end of the book

1991
01:29:01,439 --> 01:28:59,619
you express some personal disgust or at

1992
01:29:03,569 --> 01:29:01,449
least disturbance on continuing to

1993
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:03,579
investigate mutilations and that's kind

1994
01:29:08,060 --> 01:29:06,010
of pointed at me what has been the

1995
01:29:10,830 --> 01:29:08,070
psychological toll of this investigation

1996
01:29:12,330 --> 01:29:10,840
over the course of your lifetimes and I

1997
01:29:14,459 --> 01:29:12,340
would add the lifetimes of other

1998
01:29:16,949 --> 01:29:14,469
researchers let's talk about some of the

1999
01:29:20,849 --> 01:29:16,959
pivotal figures in the field from the

2000
01:29:24,889 --> 01:29:20,859
70s Tom Adams Gary Massey later on Ted

2001
01:29:27,810 --> 01:29:24,899
Oliphant but what how does this affect

2002
01:29:31,639 --> 01:29:27,820
an investigative psyche David do you

2003
01:29:34,770 --> 01:29:31,649
think boy that's a great question well

2004
01:29:36,810 --> 01:29:34,780
first of all I don't put too much

2005
01:29:38,790 --> 01:29:36,820
credence in the you know chemical

2006
01:29:40,969 --> 01:29:38,800
poisoning from being around the

2007
01:29:45,239 --> 01:29:40,979
mutilation so I was around a lot of them

2008
01:29:48,659 --> 01:29:45,249
maybe 50 or so I don't know I didn't

2009
01:29:50,759 --> 01:29:48,669
really have any ill effects from that we

2010
01:29:54,179 --> 01:29:50,769
have a few well-known cases where people

2011
01:29:55,679 --> 01:29:54,189
did have gotten sick but that has not

2012
01:29:57,839 --> 01:29:55,689
been the case with me and it's never

2013
01:30:01,589 --> 01:29:57,849
been a big fear for some reason it was

2014
01:30:04,020 --> 01:30:01,599
probably stupidity but we didn't I

2015
01:30:06,029 --> 01:30:04,030
should be wearing a hazmat suit at all

2016
01:30:10,979 --> 01:30:06,039
times did you approach these things I

2017
01:30:15,060 --> 01:30:10,989
guess but that part I don't put too much

2018
01:30:17,159 --> 01:30:15,070
credence in about the physical smells

2019
01:30:18,899 --> 01:30:17,169
and chemicals and whatever involved I

2020
01:30:21,119 --> 01:30:18,909
just intuitively don't feel that's

2021
01:30:23,489 --> 01:30:21,129
threatening to me we'll have a lot more

2022
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:23,499
to say and a lot more to present with

2023
01:30:31,980 --> 01:30:26,530
David Perkins with gene and Chris you're

2024
01:30:31,990 --> 01:30:36,140
[Music]

2025
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:39,440
great minds think alike the net worth

2026
01:30:47,210 --> 01:30:42,330
for the independent finding the genesis

2027
01:30:48,710 --> 01:30:47,220
communications network gene C first came

2028
01:30:50,750 --> 01:30:48,720
attack of the rock codes and it was a

2029
01:30:52,700 --> 01:30:50,760
critically acclaimed success and now

2030
01:30:54,830 --> 01:30:52,710
there is the coming of the protectors a

2031
01:30:57,110 --> 01:30:54,840
former military intelligence man is

2032
01:30:58,940 --> 01:30:57,120
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

2033
01:31:01,340 --> 01:30:58,950
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

2034
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:01,350
because evil forces on our distant

2035
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:03,090
planet are planning to conquer the earth

2036
01:31:08,180 --> 01:31:05,730
this is gripping science fiction of the

2037
01:31:10,250 --> 01:31:08,190
classic kind attack of the rock codes

2038
01:31:13,010 --> 01:31:10,260
and the coming of the protectors find

2039
01:31:17,030 --> 01:31:13,020
out more at rockets calm that's rock oh

2040
01:31:18,770 --> 01:31:17,040
it's our Ock oids calm so here's what

2041
01:31:21,710 --> 01:31:18,780
happened I was placing an order online

2042
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the site went down it just stopped

2043
01:31:25,910 --> 01:31:24,180
responding it took hours before it

2044
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returned but I'd already placed the

2045
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order with another company if your site

2046
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goes down you could lose business and if

2047
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you have a business or personal site

2048
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you'll want to know it's easy to run and

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2050
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2052
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2056
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2057
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2058
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2059
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2060
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2061
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2064
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2065
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2066
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2067
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2068
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2069
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2070
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2077
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2079
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2080
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cable TV rates go up the better digital

2081
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2082
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2088
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2089
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2090
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2091
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2092
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2093
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2094
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2095
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call 1-800 five my TV 180 55 905 my TV

2096
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2097
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2098
01:33:52,830 --> 01:33:50,139
my TV a little over a year ago I began

2099
01:33:54,359 --> 01:33:52,840
to do a lot of research into why even if

2100
01:33:56,220 --> 01:33:54,369
I had a pretty good sized meal that I

2101
01:33:58,800 --> 01:33:56,230
was still starving and my research led

2102
01:34:00,720 --> 01:33:58,810
me to a well-known fact that most of the

2103
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:00,730
soils that we grow our crops on here in

2104
01:34:03,660 --> 01:34:02,050
the United States and across the

2105
01:34:06,300 --> 01:34:03,670
industrialized world are almost

2106
01:34:08,910 --> 01:34:06,310
completely depleted of almost all of the

2107
01:34:11,370 --> 01:34:08,920
key minerals and trace elements that our

2108
01:34:13,350 --> 01:34:11,380
bodies need to rebuild themselves fight

2109
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off cancer and be healthy I then

2110
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2111
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2112
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2113
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2114
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2115
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2116
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2118
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2119
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2120
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2121
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2122
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2124
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hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

2125
01:34:59,770 --> 01:34:57,110
you're listening to the podcast the gold

2126
01:35:11,859 --> 01:34:59,780
standard of paranormal radio

2127
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:15,649
with gene and Chris on the para caste we

2128
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:17,489
have David Perkins we're talking about

2129
01:35:23,060 --> 01:35:20,880
that book stalking the herd where were

2130
01:35:25,609 --> 01:35:23,070
unraveling all the ins outs and y'all

2131
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:25,619
Plex ''tis about the cattle mutilation

2132
01:35:28,790 --> 01:35:27,090
mystery it's gotta kind of an

2133
01:35:30,890 --> 01:35:28,800
introduction there from David Perkins

2134
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:30,900
who helped a lot with the research yeah

2135
01:35:34,910 --> 01:35:32,610
yeah David was talking about the

2136
01:35:36,919 --> 01:35:34,920
physical you know the potential for

2137
01:35:39,050 --> 01:35:36,929
physical problems but I think burnt

2138
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:39,060
State is more interested in and how this

2139
01:35:45,319 --> 01:35:42,530
really affects investigators

2140
01:35:46,939 --> 01:35:45,329
psychologically that's what I said was

2141
01:35:49,910 --> 01:35:46,949
the great question part of it really

2142
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:49,920
and a very kind of subjective and hard

2143
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:52,530
to figure but I guess you could you

2144
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:54,719
could tally it by the number of people

2145
01:36:01,600 --> 01:35:56,610
that have been in this field and dropped

2146
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:01,610
out and just they're gone forever it's

2147
01:36:06,649 --> 01:36:05,010
it's destabilizing in some ways it's

2148
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:06,659
very frustrating you have to have a

2149
01:36:11,959 --> 01:36:10,530
pretty level calm demeanor and approach

2150
01:36:14,479 --> 01:36:11,969
to this stuff you can't get too

2151
01:36:16,569 --> 01:36:14,489
excitable it's like golf II can't get

2152
01:36:20,660 --> 01:36:16,579
too high I can't get too low you know

2153
01:36:22,129 --> 01:36:20,670
you just straight ahead but if you

2154
01:36:23,899 --> 01:36:22,139
sometimes you consider the implications

2155
01:36:25,729 --> 01:36:23,909
or what you're dealing with and it's

2156
01:36:27,410 --> 01:36:25,739
just overwhelming it's just oh my

2157
01:36:29,810 --> 01:36:27,420
goodness this cannot be happening this

2158
01:36:32,390 --> 01:36:29,820
is so threatening to me into society and

2159
01:36:34,510 --> 01:36:32,400
you go down that road and you realize

2160
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:34,520
well that's not going to be too fruitful

2161
01:36:40,089 --> 01:36:37,170
so you have to find some happy balance

2162
01:36:43,339 --> 01:36:40,099
and I think Chris and I have with humor

2163
01:36:46,370 --> 01:36:43,349
have managed to somehow stay afloat I

2164
01:36:48,979 --> 01:36:46,380
mean it's the one thing that really

2165
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:48,989
saves the day is is seeing the humor and

2166
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:51,210
irony in these situations and we have we

2167
01:36:54,339 --> 01:36:52,650
have a field day with it you know and I

2168
01:36:57,439 --> 01:36:54,349
think it keeps things light keeps things

2169
01:36:59,810 --> 01:36:57,449
easy and it's a lot of people you know I

2170
01:37:01,819 --> 01:36:59,820
it's as serious as a heart attack to

2171
01:37:03,470 --> 01:37:01,829
them they just completely short out with

2172
01:37:06,620 --> 01:37:03,480
this information once they immerse

2173
01:37:08,390 --> 01:37:06,630
themselves in it and then they implode

2174
01:37:10,700 --> 01:37:08,400
or their head explodes or something I

2175
01:37:11,300 --> 01:37:10,710
don't know I first theories that make my

2176
01:37:15,500 --> 01:37:11,310
head explode

2177
01:37:17,899 --> 01:37:15,510
all right you see some some spectacular

2178
01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:17,909
wipeouts all the way to suicide you know

2179
01:37:24,589 --> 01:37:22,290
yeah so it can take its toll so

2180
01:37:25,100 --> 01:37:24,599
therefore what I do I sometimes just

2181
01:37:26,990 --> 01:37:25,110
don't

2182
01:37:30,230 --> 01:37:27,000
approach the subject for a while at the

2183
01:37:31,250 --> 01:37:30,240
field light fallow it's too wound up in

2184
01:37:32,930 --> 01:37:31,260
it and I'll go do something else

2185
01:37:34,430 --> 01:37:32,940
completely different try to change the

2186
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:34,440
subject come back to it will refresh

2187
01:37:39,650 --> 01:37:37,770
state of mind keep going keep going it

2188
01:37:42,500 --> 01:37:39,660
would be so much easier I swear if this

2189
01:37:45,370 --> 01:37:42,510
had never entered my life it's just it's

2190
01:37:48,350 --> 01:37:45,380
exciting and and threatening and

2191
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:48,360
draining and it's everything at once but

2192
01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:50,880
if you know if you think it's Chris and

2193
01:37:55,970 --> 01:37:53,250
I do that the implications here are so

2194
01:37:57,770 --> 01:37:55,980
profound that it's very very hard to let

2195
01:37:59,390 --> 01:37:57,780
it go because we've sort of reached the

2196
01:38:02,360 --> 01:37:59,400
point of no return it's like we've got

2197
01:38:03,770 --> 01:38:02,370
to see it through you know do you think

2198
01:38:06,890 --> 01:38:03,780
guys that we're gonna see it through

2199
01:38:09,650 --> 01:38:06,900
that's gonna have a final explanation in

2200
01:38:12,620 --> 01:38:09,660
our lifetimes no I lost a bet

2201
01:38:15,790 --> 01:38:12,630
in 1993 yeah I bet a case of beer - Gary

2202
01:38:18,440 --> 01:38:15,800
Massey that someone would be at least

2203
01:38:19,940 --> 01:38:18,450
convicted or charged with a cow

2204
01:38:23,810 --> 01:38:19,950
mutilation before the end of this

2205
01:38:27,260 --> 01:38:23,820
century and seven years later I went

2206
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:27,270
down to David's house in December 99

2207
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:29,850
Gary Massey and Tom Adams were there I

2208
01:38:34,790 --> 01:38:32,730
had the bet with Gary I somehow managed

2209
01:38:37,940 --> 01:38:34,800
to find a case of Texas beer and in

2210
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:37,950
Colorado some Lone Star paid off my bet

2211
01:38:42,470 --> 01:38:39,690
and that was the last time I ever saw

2212
01:38:44,540 --> 01:38:42,480
Gary or Tom Tom disappeared dropped off

2213
01:38:47,780 --> 01:38:44,550
the map knowing his closest friends

2214
01:38:50,780 --> 01:38:47,790
never heard from him it's been what 14

2215
01:38:54,110 --> 01:38:50,790
15 years Gary killed himself a number of

2216
01:38:56,270 --> 01:38:54,120
years ago there are some people to add

2217
01:38:57,860 --> 01:38:56,280
all the fun who we had on the show one

2218
01:39:00,080 --> 01:38:57,870
of my first shows I did on the pair of

2219
01:39:00,770 --> 01:39:00,090
cast we had a mutilation round table Ted

2220
01:39:04,190 --> 01:39:00,780
all offense

2221
01:39:05,930 --> 01:39:04,200
shortly after said don't ever call me

2222
01:39:08,270 --> 01:39:05,940
with any questions about the mutilations

2223
01:39:10,430 --> 01:39:08,280
I am out of it I don't want to talk

2224
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:10,440
about it don't bother me with it

2225
01:39:14,090 --> 01:39:12,330
Peter Jordan I could just go down the

2226
01:39:16,190 --> 01:39:14,100
list there's quite a number of people

2227
01:39:19,490 --> 01:39:16,200
that have I guess you could call them

2228
01:39:21,620 --> 01:39:19,500
you know casualties that have totally

2229
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:21,630
distanced themselves from the subject

2230
01:39:25,940 --> 01:39:23,610
and will not speak publicly about it and

2231
01:39:28,010 --> 01:39:25,950
I think David brought up a really good

2232
01:39:30,890 --> 01:39:28,020
point that you really need to be

2233
01:39:33,860 --> 01:39:30,900
even-keeled you need to have a sense of

2234
01:39:36,380 --> 01:39:33,870
irony you need to look at the the you

2235
01:39:37,220 --> 01:39:36,390
know the ridiculousness of some of these

2236
01:39:40,190 --> 01:39:37,230
sins

2237
01:39:42,860 --> 01:39:40,200
Aereo's and some of these theories and

2238
01:39:45,070 --> 01:39:42,870
and you always have to look at it in in

2239
01:39:47,450 --> 01:39:45,080
a light sort of humorous sort of way or

2240
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:47,460
you will implode your head will explode

2241
01:39:53,810 --> 01:39:52,410
oh so I might disappear one day I know

2242
01:39:57,290 --> 01:39:53,820
there are some of our listeners who are

2243
01:39:59,390 --> 01:39:57,300
just hoping and praying for that no well

2244
01:40:03,020 --> 01:39:59,400
that's a good lead-in to the following

2245
01:40:06,140 --> 01:40:03,030
question this one comes again from from

2246
01:40:08,570 --> 01:40:06,150
Bern state and David and I are planning

2247
01:40:10,970 --> 01:40:08,580
to co-write E and then an analysis of

2248
01:40:14,390 --> 01:40:10,980
Stocking heard the working title is

2249
01:40:14,990 --> 01:40:14,400
stalking the stalkers for lack of a

2250
01:40:17,270 --> 01:40:15,000
better one

2251
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:17,280
but Bern stated I don't like after the

2252
01:40:22,430 --> 01:40:20,489
herd yeah or like I said I heard it

2253
01:40:24,830 --> 01:40:22,440
through the cow play I you know whatever

2254
01:40:27,410 --> 01:40:24,840
we haven't decided you know completely

2255
01:40:29,570 --> 01:40:27,420
on a title yeah but Bern state says in

2256
01:40:32,660 --> 01:40:29,580
the follow-up book what specific threads

2257
01:40:34,940 --> 01:40:32,670
of ideas will you be pursuing in terms

2258
01:40:37,100 --> 01:40:34,950
of stock in stalkers and how will you go

2259
01:40:40,010 --> 01:40:37,110
about developing a line of inquiry that

2260
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:40,020
moves past investigating dead cow bodies

2261
01:40:46,370 --> 01:40:43,370
over and over again okay well I think

2262
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:46,380
Chris and I have discussed it he had a

2263
01:40:51,650 --> 01:40:48,210
lot of material that he didn't get into

2264
01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:51,660
this book which I think you called other

2265
01:40:57,260 --> 01:40:53,760
voices or what did you call it it was a

2266
01:40:59,060 --> 01:40:57,270
people that had first-hand investigative

2267
01:41:01,780 --> 01:40:59,070
knowledge about theories and opinions

2268
01:41:04,670 --> 01:41:01,790
basically yeah to hear from those people

2269
01:41:07,940 --> 01:41:04,680
would I think would be good to get in

2270
01:41:10,580 --> 01:41:07,950
into this new book and then my idea of

2271
01:41:13,580 --> 01:41:10,590
it was basically to take each of the

2272
01:41:16,070 --> 01:41:13,590
major theories and give its strong

2273
01:41:19,670 --> 01:41:16,080
points and then give its weak points and

2274
01:41:21,530 --> 01:41:19,680
keep moving along maybe from the easiest

2275
01:41:24,710 --> 01:41:21,540
ones to the hardest ones you know and

2276
01:41:27,530 --> 01:41:24,720
and really take each theory and pulling

2277
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:27,540
up the evidence that's been used to

2278
01:41:32,420 --> 01:41:29,970
support that particular theory viewing

2279
01:41:35,690 --> 01:41:32,430
that from all angles and then calmly

2280
01:41:37,790 --> 01:41:35,700
tearing it down which I think we could

2281
01:41:40,570 --> 01:41:37,800
do oh you know we arrived at some point

2282
01:41:43,220 --> 01:41:40,580
where there a process of elimination

2283
01:41:46,310 --> 01:41:43,230
which we don't know what that oh may go

2284
01:41:49,399 --> 01:41:46,320
point is at this time but that'll be the

2285
01:41:51,379 --> 01:41:49,409
exciting part to get to that that place

2286
01:41:53,540 --> 01:41:51,389
that's for analyzing the theories than

2287
01:41:58,220 --> 01:41:53,550
presenting the data as Chris did in this

2288
01:42:01,459 --> 01:41:58,230
book which was basically chronicling the

2289
01:42:04,580 --> 01:42:01,469
whole phenomenon and as great a detail

2290
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:04,590
as possible but without going into like

2291
01:42:08,149 --> 01:42:06,210
a lot of the scientific aspects that we

2292
01:42:11,090 --> 01:42:08,159
came up with toward the end of working

2293
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:11,100
on Chris's book the recent one we had to

2294
01:42:15,830 --> 01:42:12,810
leave out they were just too undeveloped

2295
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:15,840
and ill-formed at that point but we'd

2296
01:42:19,189 --> 01:42:17,370
like to go back and revisit some of

2297
01:42:22,070 --> 01:42:19,199
those things and just give a very

2298
01:42:24,879 --> 01:42:22,080
careful analysis of each of the theories

2299
01:42:28,160 --> 01:42:24,889
and then see where we end up with yeah

2300
01:42:31,100 --> 01:42:28,170
here's a question in a similar vein from

2301
01:42:33,350 --> 01:42:31,110
sue who's not a very often poster at

2302
01:42:36,020 --> 01:42:33,360
Paris have formed off the para cast car

2303
01:42:37,970 --> 01:42:36,030
but she has a question that's pretty

2304
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:37,980
interesting what would it take for the

2305
01:42:41,750 --> 01:42:39,570
kind of work that you and Chris have

2306
01:42:44,149 --> 01:42:41,760
done to be built upon by successive

2307
01:42:46,060 --> 01:42:44,159
generations of researchers rather than

2308
01:42:49,850 --> 01:42:46,070
be forgotten a neighbor maybe later

2309
01:42:53,510 --> 01:42:49,860
reinvented what was John keels quote

2310
01:42:55,790 --> 01:42:53,520
something like all of this won't matter

2311
01:43:03,160 --> 01:42:55,800
much in a hundred years doesn't matter

2312
01:43:07,250 --> 01:43:03,170
much now okay here's another one

2313
01:43:09,260 --> 01:43:07,260
it does matter now it does it does you

2314
01:43:11,300 --> 01:43:09,270
know the idea of legacy I guess that's a

2315
01:43:13,459 --> 01:43:11,310
little hard to take that one on at the

2316
01:43:15,919 --> 01:43:13,469
moment however when you put this much

2317
01:43:17,750 --> 01:43:15,929
work into it as much as Chris and I have

2318
01:43:20,209 --> 01:43:17,760
you would really like to see the work

2319
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:20,219
continue if on the off chance we don't

2320
01:43:24,260 --> 01:43:22,770
solve it in our lifetime and I think it

2321
01:43:26,959 --> 01:43:24,270
will continue because these issues are

2322
01:43:30,020 --> 01:43:26,969
always going to be with us in my mind

2323
01:43:31,850 --> 01:43:30,030
the you know the mutilations it's hard

2324
01:43:34,790 --> 01:43:31,860
to avoid not putting them in the

2325
01:43:37,220 --> 01:43:34,800
paranormal realm they just are in my

2326
01:43:40,220 --> 01:43:37,230
book yeah along with all their attendant

2327
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:40,230
phenomena and UFOs what's the likelihood

2328
01:43:46,550 --> 01:43:43,170
we can't explain a cattle mutilation by

2329
01:43:48,470 --> 01:43:46,560
a UFO you can't explain one unknown with

2330
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:48,480
another unknown you know that's just

2331
01:43:52,820 --> 01:43:49,290
doesn't work

2332
01:43:55,399 --> 01:43:52,830
so they're always going to be aspects of

2333
01:43:57,140 --> 01:43:55,409
this mystery that carry over carry over

2334
01:43:58,879 --> 01:43:57,150
and unless some if somebody could come

2335
01:44:01,160 --> 01:43:58,889
forward and confesses of doing the

2336
01:44:03,170 --> 01:44:01,170
cattle mutilations in our lifetime which

2337
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:03,180
seems highly unlikely

2338
01:44:06,950 --> 01:44:05,010
I think the work will carry on at people

2339
01:44:08,930 --> 01:44:06,960
who listen to this program and serious

2340
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:08,940
researchers which you people have on

2341
01:44:15,530 --> 01:44:13,050
here really very very talented good good

2342
01:44:17,180 --> 01:44:15,540
mind supple agile brains you know

2343
01:44:20,660 --> 01:44:17,190
working on this all the time it will

2344
01:44:26,360 --> 01:44:20,670
continue forever Wow oh man all of a

2345
01:44:29,540 --> 01:44:26,370
sudden I got incredibly depressed one

2346
01:44:31,870 --> 01:44:29,550
thing I would like to add yeah it's it's

2347
01:44:34,340 --> 01:44:31,880
the quality of inquiry I think

2348
01:44:36,860 --> 01:44:34,350
unfortunately in David and I have talked

2349
01:44:39,530 --> 01:44:36,870
about this at length people get involved

2350
01:44:41,930 --> 01:44:39,540
in in the paranormal and in these types

2351
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:41,940
of mystery subjects and they tend to

2352
01:44:47,930 --> 01:44:44,130
develop blinders they they get tunnel

2353
01:44:50,690 --> 01:44:47,940
vision they they tend to over focus on a

2354
01:44:53,870 --> 01:44:50,700
particular you know quality of

2355
01:44:55,730 --> 01:44:53,880
phenomenon or to some sort of you know

2356
01:44:58,160 --> 01:44:55,740
focused attention on a particular

2357
01:45:00,350 --> 01:44:58,170
mystery and I think what David and I

2358
01:45:02,690 --> 01:45:00,360
have really attempted to do I think just

2359
01:45:04,970 --> 01:45:02,700
naturally as people but but also we've

2360
01:45:08,150 --> 01:45:04,980
developed a capacity to always have our

2361
01:45:11,900 --> 01:45:08,160
eyes open for attendant what seemed to

2362
01:45:15,170 --> 01:45:11,910
be unrelated at times phenomenal events

2363
01:45:17,690 --> 01:45:15,180
that may somehow be indicative of

2364
01:45:20,450 --> 01:45:17,700
something larger going on for instance

2365
01:45:26,010 --> 01:45:20,460
David Perkins with Jean and Chris you're

2366
01:45:30,930 --> 01:45:28,330
not just an alternative to the

2367
01:45:34,629 --> 01:45:30,940
mainstream media we're the premier

2368
01:45:37,870 --> 01:45:34,639
independent talk radio network we are G

2369
01:45:39,610 --> 01:45:37,880
C n if you own a business you need

2370
01:45:41,169 --> 01:45:39,620
customers right well your potential

2371
01:45:42,790 --> 01:45:41,179
customers are listening to this radio

2372
01:45:44,709 --> 01:45:42,800
program right now and I can help you

2373
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:44,719
reach them hi I'm Matt Brauer a national

2374
01:45:48,399 --> 01:45:46,250
marketing executive at the radio network

2375
01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:48,409
responsible for this program I can help

2376
01:45:52,090 --> 01:45:50,330
you customize a national radio campaign

2377
01:45:53,770 --> 01:45:52,100
that fits your budget large or small

2378
01:45:55,750 --> 01:45:53,780
while targeting your specific audience

2379
01:45:57,129 --> 01:45:55,760
call me to learn how radio advertising

2380
01:45:59,800 --> 01:45:57,139
can make your business more profitable

2381
01:46:01,780 --> 01:45:59,810
eight seven seven nine nine six four

2382
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:01,790
three two seven extension one twenty

2383
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:02,090
eight

2384
01:46:07,810 --> 01:46:06,050
four three two seven extension one

2385
01:46:10,030 --> 01:46:07,820
twenty eight we the people grow cotton

2386
01:46:11,680 --> 01:46:10,040
wheat fabric engraving embeds strips and

2387
01:46:13,450 --> 01:46:11,690
fibers to protect from counterfeit and

2388
01:46:14,350 --> 01:46:13,460
carding to a private bank having a led

2389
01:46:16,120 --> 01:46:14,360
back at interest

2390
01:46:18,010 --> 01:46:16,130
forcing taxes to service debt this

2391
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:18,020
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

2392
01:46:21,100 --> 01:46:19,489
stating a central bank issuing the

2393
01:46:22,240 --> 01:46:21,110
public currency is a greater menace to

2394
01:46:23,979 --> 01:46:22,250
the liberties of the people than a

2395
01:46:25,390 --> 01:46:23,989
standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

2396
01:46:27,220 --> 01:46:25,400
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2397
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:27,230
that explains our monetary system call

2398
01:46:33,939 --> 01:46:30,770
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2399
01:46:35,860 --> 01:46:33,949
to understand the system call 866 to 237

2400
01:46:39,850 --> 01:46:35,870
that's eight hundred six eight six two

2401
01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:39,860
two three seven question could too many

2402
01:46:44,919 --> 01:46:42,170
GMO foods and toxins be overloading your

2403
01:46:47,169 --> 01:46:44,929
digestive and immune systems answer yes

2404
01:46:49,419 --> 01:46:47,179
if you're searching for a powerful detox

2405
01:46:52,570 --> 01:46:49,429
that's gentle enough to use everyday use

2406
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:52,580
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2407
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2410
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2411
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2412
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2413
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aid in controlling yeast and other

2414
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infections pro-am one is made with only

2415
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2416
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2417
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2418
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2419
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2423
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2424
01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:33,829
through Amazon

2425
01:47:46,419 --> 01:47:36,169
pro-am one from Tara Gannicus life's

2426
01:47:49,540 --> 01:47:46,429
getting better welcome back to the para

2427
01:47:59,649 --> 01:47:49,550
cast the gold standard of paranormal

2428
01:48:02,469 --> 01:47:59,659
radio and now here's Jean Steinberg as

2429
01:48:04,109 --> 01:48:02,479
we ended the previous segment Chris was

2430
01:48:07,179 --> 01:48:04,119
continuing with an explanation about

2431
01:48:08,649 --> 01:48:07,189
theories and evidence and about related

2432
01:48:10,389 --> 01:48:08,659
possibilities and such and I had a

2433
01:48:13,389 --> 01:48:10,399
question the winds which I want to

2434
01:48:15,339 --> 01:48:13,399
present after you finish this okay well

2435
01:48:17,409 --> 01:48:15,349
basically what I was saying Jean is

2436
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:17,419
pretty simple you can't have tunnel

2437
01:48:22,809 --> 01:48:19,760
vision you have to have your radar on

2438
01:48:26,349 --> 01:48:22,819
and your feelers tuned for other things

2439
01:48:28,149 --> 01:48:26,359
that are going on in areas where the

2440
01:48:30,579 --> 01:48:28,159
phenomena that you're interested in is

2441
01:48:32,109 --> 01:48:30,589
occurring and attended phenomenon and

2442
01:48:34,029 --> 01:48:32,119
synchronistic events are really

2443
01:48:36,069 --> 01:48:34,039
important and that's one thing I think

2444
01:48:40,179 --> 01:48:36,079
David and I have developed is a capacity

2445
01:48:42,129 --> 01:48:40,189
to be really open and aware of attendant

2446
01:48:44,669 --> 01:48:42,139
phenomena that may be happening in the

2447
01:48:48,449 --> 01:48:44,679
culture in the weather in the political

2448
01:48:50,559 --> 01:48:48,459
arena in the you know all the different

2449
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:50,569
permutations that are that are occurring

2450
01:48:54,879 --> 01:48:52,489
in an area where you're investigating

2451
01:48:58,149 --> 01:48:54,889
that's really important can you give us

2452
01:49:00,540 --> 01:48:58,159
some examples of attendant phenomena

2453
01:49:03,339 --> 01:49:00,550
well I think David's trip to Ellsbury

2454
01:49:06,129 --> 01:49:03,349
Missouri would be a perfect example

2455
01:49:09,449 --> 01:49:06,139
David once you answer that one yeah

2456
01:49:12,250 --> 01:49:09,459
that's a good question there gene but

2457
01:49:17,199 --> 01:49:12,260
you know and I think it was out summer

2458
01:49:20,859 --> 01:49:17,209
of 78 I went to Ellsbury Missouri with

2459
01:49:24,520 --> 01:49:20,869
my colleagues bill MacIntyre and Kerry

2460
01:49:26,469 --> 01:49:24,530
sieh well that we had heard that there

2461
01:49:29,679 --> 01:49:26,479
were mutilations happening there and a

2462
01:49:31,689 --> 01:49:29,689
lot of UFO sightings so we thought wow

2463
01:49:33,369 --> 01:49:31,699
this is let's go to one of these places

2464
01:49:36,939 --> 01:49:33,379
I think it was the first time we never

2465
01:49:38,469 --> 01:49:36,949
really gone out of our milieu and gone

2466
01:49:40,509 --> 01:49:38,479
into something and just say okay let's

2467
01:49:43,239 --> 01:49:40,519
just see what's going on here so we get

2468
01:49:46,419 --> 01:49:43,249
there and sure enough I talk about this

2469
01:49:46,919 --> 01:49:46,429
in the introduction to the stalking the

2470
01:49:50,340 --> 01:49:46,929
herd

2471
01:49:53,870 --> 01:49:50,350
my trip to Ellsbury but that really

2472
01:49:56,490 --> 01:49:53,880
opened my eyes I think in terms of

2473
01:49:58,260 --> 01:49:56,500
different phenomena that are going on in

2474
01:50:01,919 --> 01:49:58,270
a cattle mutilation area for instance

2475
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:01,929
that was the mo mo the the Missouri

2476
01:50:05,850 --> 01:50:04,690
monster we get there and they say well

2477
01:50:08,310 --> 01:50:05,860
yeah we just have these failed

2478
01:50:10,740 --> 01:50:08,320
mutilations and then the old fred over

2479
01:50:12,689 --> 01:50:10,750
there he saw mo mo in the woods and I

2480
01:50:14,220 --> 01:50:12,699
got like what's mo mo oh you don't know

2481
01:50:16,140 --> 01:50:14,230
about mo mo that's this hairy creature

2482
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:16,150
the runs around and does things and

2483
01:50:21,270 --> 01:50:18,610
occasionally runs off with our livestock

2484
01:50:26,399 --> 01:50:21,280
or slashes and kills him and I went oh

2485
01:50:27,990 --> 01:50:26,409
okay and then Tom over there he was down

2486
01:50:30,419 --> 01:50:28,000
at the river the other day and he saw

2487
01:50:33,149 --> 01:50:30,429
these he said they look like little kids

2488
01:50:34,919 --> 01:50:33,159
wearing silver suits and they're all

2489
01:50:37,010 --> 01:50:34,929
down there by the river and he got kind

2490
01:50:40,500 --> 01:50:37,020
of spooked and left and it's like okay

2491
01:50:42,360 --> 01:50:40,510
so then the next guy says well we were

2492
01:50:44,850 --> 01:50:42,370
down to Mississippi River fishing and we

2493
01:50:47,850 --> 01:50:44,860
saw these 55-gallon drums would look

2494
01:50:50,130 --> 01:50:47,860
like floating down the river and they

2495
01:50:51,390 --> 01:50:50,140
were all just floating long and all of a

2496
01:50:54,149 --> 01:50:51,400
sudden they just rose up out of the

2497
01:50:57,540 --> 01:50:54,159
water and flew off in formation so you

2498
01:51:01,260 --> 01:50:57,550
got you know 55-gallon drums fly in

2499
01:51:03,180 --> 01:51:01,270
formation and then we're like okay and

2500
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:03,190
what about the flying saucers oh yeah

2501
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:05,650
everybody's seen him the mayor newspaper

2502
01:51:12,390 --> 01:51:08,650
editor chief please there your classic

2503
01:51:14,189 --> 01:51:12,400
flying saucers it's like oh right so you

2504
01:51:16,050 --> 01:51:14,199
start tallying these things up and then

2505
01:51:18,870 --> 01:51:16,060
there were helicopters mystery

2506
01:51:21,450 --> 01:51:18,880
helicopters in that situation - so these

2507
01:51:24,090 --> 01:51:21,460
are you would call attendant phenomena

2508
01:51:26,130 --> 01:51:24,100
and just to add on to that I in the

2509
01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:26,140
process of doing the research for

2510
01:51:32,399 --> 01:51:29,890
Chris's book I was kind of amazed I've

2511
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:32,409
served pick a place at that point I was

2512
01:51:38,040 --> 01:51:35,890
working on stuff in the Midwest and I

2513
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:38,050
would okay we knew that say that they

2514
01:51:42,540 --> 01:51:40,570
had cattle mutilation in 1973 that's all

2515
01:51:43,979 --> 01:51:42,550
I knew and I would start digging and

2516
01:51:46,740 --> 01:51:43,989
then next thing you know it's like well

2517
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:46,750
they had helicopters unmarked

2518
01:51:52,290 --> 01:51:48,850
helicopters around the same time and

2519
01:51:56,070 --> 01:51:52,300
then they were a focal point for the

2520
01:51:58,350 --> 01:51:56,080
1973 UFO a wave a lot of classic flying

2521
01:52:00,240 --> 01:51:58,360
saucer sightings and then you start

2522
01:52:02,670 --> 01:52:00,250
digging historically and

2523
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:02,680
oh yes well this is also the site where

2524
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:05,410
everybody sees the giant Black Panthers

2525
01:52:11,460 --> 01:52:07,810
in the woods all the time and other

2526
01:52:12,990 --> 01:52:11,470
cryptids that it's sort of like you pick

2527
01:52:15,120 --> 01:52:13,000
up any rock and there's something living

2528
01:52:17,640 --> 01:52:15,130
under it right yeah well this is also

2529
01:52:19,290 --> 01:52:17,650
the place where the Bigfoot just being

2530
01:52:21,630 --> 01:52:19,300
seen all the time and this is also the

2531
01:52:23,640 --> 01:52:21,640
place where this net and the other so

2532
01:52:26,850 --> 01:52:23,650
next thing you know you've got 6-7

2533
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:26,860
attendant phenomena in these sites oh

2534
01:52:32,910 --> 01:52:28,930
yeah by the way it was also a place of a

2535
01:52:36,030 --> 01:52:32,920
major airship sighting in 1897 so you're

2536
01:52:37,650 --> 01:52:36,040
like wow there's quite a string of what

2537
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:37,660
is it about this place anyway and

2538
01:52:42,630 --> 01:52:39,610
they've got creatures in the lake that

2539
01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:42,640
bite your testicles off too so so there

2540
01:52:49,890 --> 01:52:46,770
you go don't get too nosey whoops whoops

2541
01:52:51,900 --> 01:52:49,900
no kidding I mean I said you that report

2542
01:52:53,550 --> 01:52:51,910
I don't think that was a cryptid I

2543
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:53,560
supposedly that was a real creature but

2544
01:52:58,860 --> 01:52:56,050
these other things what I learned a

2545
01:53:01,830 --> 01:52:58,870
great appreciation before in that

2546
01:53:06,120 --> 01:53:01,840
research was how often these so-called

2547
01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:06,130
cryptid cryptozoological creatures are

2548
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:08,770
part of the scenario and this reveals my

2549
01:53:14,310 --> 01:53:09,250
bias

2550
01:53:16,110 --> 01:53:14,320
past I've tended to push all that stuff

2551
01:53:17,700 --> 01:53:16,120
to the side say this doesn't really know

2552
01:53:20,250 --> 01:53:17,710
there's just something else this is

2553
01:53:22,770 --> 01:53:20,260
something else I didn't want to face the

2554
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:22,780
fact that it was perhaps integral to the

2555
01:53:28,650 --> 01:53:25,810
cattle mutilation scenario so that was

2556
01:53:31,260 --> 01:53:28,660
my bias I was I was biased against the

2557
01:53:34,620 --> 01:53:31,270
Bigfoot creatures I was biased against

2558
01:53:36,900 --> 01:53:34,630
the so-called mutilations in England all

2559
01:53:38,910 --> 01:53:36,910
these things I tended to just put aside

2560
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:38,920
and that that's my blinders my blind

2561
01:53:43,470 --> 01:53:40,930
spot and every researcher has to

2562
01:53:46,230 --> 01:53:43,480
identify where their blind spots are it

2563
01:53:49,350 --> 01:53:46,240
gets really an important important point

2564
01:53:51,030 --> 01:53:49,360
that should be stressed again it goes

2565
01:53:54,630 --> 01:53:51,040
back to the whole idea of being too

2566
01:53:58,320 --> 01:53:54,640
focused on a single aspect of of a

2567
01:54:00,300 --> 01:53:58,330
potential mysterious you know I guess

2568
01:54:03,660 --> 01:54:00,310
would be a constellation of attendant

2569
01:54:06,150 --> 01:54:03,670
phenomena and you know the whole mystery

2570
01:54:11,610 --> 01:54:06,160
helicopter thing I think both David and

2571
01:54:14,010 --> 01:54:11,620
I would agree is a major element here

2572
01:54:17,130 --> 01:54:14,020
that many researchers out

2573
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:17,140
just attend to kind of dismiss or sweep

2574
01:54:21,780 --> 01:54:19,210
under the rug or try to explain them

2575
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:21,790
away with with what appeared to be hi

2576
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:23,410
strange explanations that don't quite

2577
01:54:28,230 --> 01:54:26,410
fit that brings me to another question

2578
01:54:31,110 --> 01:54:28,240
here from one of our listeners of forum

2579
01:54:34,860 --> 01:54:31,120
dr. Peric ascom this comes from captain

2580
01:54:36,930 --> 01:54:34,870
recovery who has been a on the para cast

2581
01:54:40,860 --> 01:54:36,940
for him here since 2008 but is only

2582
01:54:42,990 --> 01:54:40,870
posted 12 messages over six years so you

2583
01:54:45,740 --> 01:54:43,000
see what you've done Chris we're

2584
01:54:47,520 --> 01:54:45,750
flushing them out now yeah we are

2585
01:54:50,190 --> 01:54:47,530
they're they're coming out of the

2586
01:54:53,850 --> 01:54:50,200
woodwork this is an interesting one in

2587
01:54:56,580 --> 01:54:53,860
Cache County Utah 1976 after a series of

2588
01:54:58,260 --> 01:54:56,590
mutilations ranch has formed an armed

2589
01:55:00,200 --> 01:54:58,270
surveillance watch looking for

2590
01:55:02,820 --> 01:55:00,210
helicopter scene around mutilations

2591
01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:02,830
after police confronted several men in

2592
01:55:06,930 --> 01:55:04,930
an unmarked army helicopter at a small

2593
01:55:08,910 --> 01:55:06,940
local airport there was a heated

2594
01:55:11,790 --> 01:55:08,920
exchange and mutilations ceased for

2595
01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:11,800
about five years he says I believe the

2596
01:55:15,630 --> 01:55:13,450
government has the means helicopters

2597
01:55:17,370 --> 01:55:15,640
laser cutter in cutting tools etc and

2598
01:55:20,790 --> 01:55:17,380
the motive tracking mad cow disease

2599
01:55:24,630 --> 01:55:20,800
scrapie etc to explain most of it that's

2600
01:55:27,390 --> 01:55:24,640
a little debatable but he's wondering

2601
01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:27,400
are we aware or are you aware of any

2602
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:29,530
other confrontations like the one in

2603
01:55:36,210 --> 01:55:32,530
Utah hmm I'm not even aware of that what

2604
01:55:39,500 --> 01:55:36,220
are you it's news to me well I did

2605
01:55:42,360 --> 01:55:39,510
mention the I think it was Iowa where

2606
01:55:44,370 --> 01:55:42,370
ranches were actually in Kansas we're

2607
01:55:46,710 --> 01:55:44,380
actually shooting at helicopters and in

2608
01:55:48,930 --> 01:55:46,720
a couple of cases the helicopters shot

2609
01:55:51,750 --> 01:55:48,940
back but in terms of actually

2610
01:55:53,220 --> 01:55:51,760
confronting people on the ground I would

2611
01:55:55,950 --> 01:55:53,230
like to know more about that captain

2612
01:55:58,080 --> 01:55:55,960
recovery send me a private message or

2613
01:56:01,530 --> 01:55:58,090
pose-off or information about that

2614
01:56:05,190 --> 01:56:01,540
particular case very unusual yeah it's

2615
01:56:08,910 --> 01:56:05,200
it's almost stand-alone and cash County

2616
01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:08,920
Utah if you know off the top of my head

2617
01:56:16,410 --> 01:56:13,810
does not kind of ring a bell in terms of

2618
01:56:17,700 --> 01:56:16,420
many mutilation cases so I might have to

2619
01:56:19,980 --> 01:56:17,710
do a little digging if you have any more

2620
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:19,990
information about that mister recovery

2621
01:56:26,130 --> 01:56:24,130
or captain do get in touch with us and

2622
01:56:26,870 --> 01:56:26,140
fill us in I'd love to see a newspaper

2623
01:56:29,120 --> 01:56:26,880
article about

2624
01:56:29,930 --> 01:56:29,130
that we don't want to say he should

2625
01:56:35,540 --> 01:56:29,940
recover it

2626
01:56:35,870 --> 01:56:35,550
I hear dead silence well that's news to

2627
01:56:39,830 --> 01:56:35,880
me

2628
01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:39,840
I wouldn't really know what to how to

2629
01:56:44,450 --> 01:56:41,610
comment on that because that that would

2630
01:56:49,370 --> 01:56:44,460
be that would be a major development in

2631
01:56:51,919 --> 01:56:49,380
in the research realm here for us well

2632
01:56:54,399 --> 01:56:51,929
let's let's get a little bit bigger

2633
01:56:57,620 --> 01:56:54,409
picture David Digital trickster who is

2634
01:56:59,930 --> 01:56:57,630
one of our posters at forum dr. Peric

2635
01:57:03,169 --> 01:56:59,940
ascom he has a very good question here

2636
01:57:06,890 --> 01:57:03,179
and I want to bounce it off you because

2637
01:57:09,979 --> 01:57:06,900
I know it it will elicit a very

2638
01:57:12,470 --> 01:57:09,989
interesting response he asked you do you

2639
01:57:14,479 --> 01:57:12,480
think that what's the end goal of all

2640
01:57:17,300 --> 01:57:14,489
this to simply push ourselves to grow

2641
01:57:19,640 --> 01:57:17,310
more as a species or do you believe that

2642
01:57:22,700 --> 01:57:19,650
it is pushing us towards a much larger

2643
01:57:24,620 --> 01:57:22,710
endgame for Humanity and if so what do

2644
01:57:26,600 --> 01:57:24,630
you think that maybe we'll get the

2645
01:57:28,820 --> 01:57:26,610
answer to that in our next segment Dave

2646
01:57:37,580 --> 01:57:28,830
Perkins joining gene and Chris you're in

2647
01:57:40,250 --> 01:57:37,590
the paper guest neighbors are you tired

2648
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Cooper with Midas resources gold and

2669
01:58:41,540 --> 01:58:39,660
silver gun

2670
01:58:44,060 --> 01:58:41,550
shut down Annette politicians

2671
01:58:45,890 --> 01:58:44,070
entitlements looming Obamacare the death

2672
01:58:47,660 --> 01:58:45,900
of the US dollars the global reserve

2673
01:58:49,310 --> 01:58:47,670
currency is what nobody wants to

2674
01:58:51,080 --> 01:58:49,320
acknowledge we have a debt bubble that

2675
01:58:52,640 --> 01:58:51,090
cannot be paid and will eventually crash

2676
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:52,650
the dollar if you're concerned about

2677
01:58:55,970 --> 01:58:54,330
keeping your money why not consider

2678
01:59:33,160 --> 01:58:55,980
storing your wealth and gold and silver

2679
01:59:41,180 --> 01:59:38,780
and 1:30 it's hard to imagine when

2680
01:59:44,210 --> 01:59:41,190
things are going reasonably well just

2681
01:59:44,990 --> 01:59:44,220
how quickly things can change but what

2682
01:59:48,140 --> 01:59:45,000
would it take

2683
01:59:51,110 --> 01:59:48,150
economic collapse massive crop failure

2684
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:51,120
chemical or biological attack so many

2685
01:59:55,130 --> 01:59:53,130
situations could find you in the grocery

2686
01:59:58,730 --> 01:59:55,140
looking to pick up food for your family

2687
02:00:02,240 --> 01:59:58,740
only to find that the shelves are empty

2688
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:02,250
there's nothing don't let that happen

2689
02:00:07,280 --> 02:00:04,650
act today to make sure that if it ever

2690
02:00:10,730 --> 02:00:07,290
comes to that you and your family will

2691
02:00:12,950 --> 02:00:10,740
be provided for visit freeze-dry guide

2692
02:00:15,350 --> 02:00:12,960
to look at the wide variety of survival

2693
02:00:17,720 --> 02:00:15,360
foods available freeze-dried foods from

2694
02:00:20,210 --> 02:00:17,730
the freeze dry guys Thor longer

2695
02:00:23,000 --> 02:00:20,220
rehydrate faster our nutritionally

2696
02:00:25,130 --> 02:00:23,010
superior - and tastes better than any

2697
02:00:29,060 --> 02:00:25,140
other long term storage food available

2698
02:00:34,970 --> 02:00:29,070
visit freeze dry guy.com or call toll

2699
02:00:37,700 --> 02:00:34,980
free 866 404 3-6 6-3 freeze dry

2700
02:00:40,070 --> 02:00:37,710
guide.com don't complain about your

2701
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:40,080
cable bill going up and up and I'll do

2702
02:00:42,860 --> 02:00:41,130
something about it

2703
02:00:46,910 --> 02:00:42,870
grab a pencil and jot down this special

2704
02:00:48,620 --> 02:00:46,920
number 1 855 905 my TV the more cable TV

2705
02:00:51,410 --> 02:00:48,630
rates go up the better digital satellite

2706
02:00:53,060 --> 02:00:51,420
TV looks say goodbye to the Cable Guy

2707
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:53,070
and get more of your favorite channels

2708
02:00:59,480 --> 02:00:55,650
than 100% digital quality for less money

2709
02:01:01,550 --> 02:00:59,490
call 185 905 my TV sign up for packages

2710
02:01:03,410 --> 02:01:01,560
starting as low as $19.99 and there's no

2711
02:01:05,960 --> 02:01:03,420
equipment to buy you get free HDTV

2712
02:01:08,030 --> 02:01:05,970
upgrade a free DVR upgraded free

2713
02:01:10,460 --> 02:01:08,040
professional installation you control

2714
02:01:12,230 --> 02:01:10,470
what you watch when you watch it record

2715
02:01:15,230 --> 02:01:12,240
your favorite shows pause and rewind

2716
02:01:18,260 --> 02:01:15,240
live TV even skip the commercials watch

2717
02:01:19,010 --> 02:01:18,270
local channels - at just $19.99 what are

2718
02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:19,020
you waiting for

2719
02:01:26,660 --> 02:01:20,970
pull out your major credit or debit card

2720
02:01:29,210 --> 02:01:26,670
call 185 905 my TV 1 855 905 my TV say

2721
02:01:38,200 --> 02:01:29,220
goodbye to the Cable Guy cut costs and

2722
02:01:43,190 --> 02:01:41,180
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

2723
02:01:46,850 --> 02:01:43,200
comment or question about the para cast

2724
02:01:50,510 --> 02:01:46,860
sent it to News at the para caste calm

2725
02:01:52,580 --> 02:01:50,520
that's news at the para cast calm and

2726
02:01:55,760 --> 02:01:52,590
don't forget to visit our famous para

2727
02:01:58,490 --> 02:01:55,770
cast community forums at forum dot the

2728
02:02:03,030 --> 02:01:58,500
para cast com

2729
02:02:04,260 --> 02:02:03,040
the endgame is there an endgame I still

2730
02:02:08,250 --> 02:02:04,270
think it's not gonna happen in our

2731
02:02:11,100 --> 02:02:08,260
lifetimes you're probably right

2732
02:02:12,960 --> 02:02:11,110
like I say this there always be the

2733
02:02:14,670 --> 02:02:12,970
unknown and there will always be inquiry

2734
02:02:17,250 --> 02:02:14,680
minds and as long as we're walking

2735
02:02:18,300 --> 02:02:17,260
around on the planet but in terms of the

2736
02:02:21,060 --> 02:02:18,310
endgame

2737
02:02:25,590 --> 02:02:21,070
that's not exactly a term that I use

2738
02:02:27,360 --> 02:02:25,600
often but I will say I would like to

2739
02:02:30,650 --> 02:02:27,370
just back up one notch to say that

2740
02:02:34,620 --> 02:02:30,660
Chris's last book the trickster stock

2741
02:02:36,300 --> 02:02:34,630
what was it stalking the trickster which

2742
02:02:37,820 --> 02:02:36,310
was a very important book and it's

2743
02:02:40,110 --> 02:02:37,830
something that Chris and I have been

2744
02:02:43,530 --> 02:02:40,120
more and more involved in and

2745
02:02:46,020 --> 02:02:43,540
researching is the figure the character

2746
02:02:48,180 --> 02:02:46,030
of the trickster so go get that book and

2747
02:02:50,640 --> 02:02:48,190
read it and and read my introduction to

2748
02:02:54,360 --> 02:02:50,650
that book which i think is relevant to

2749
02:02:56,250 --> 02:02:54,370
this discussion but my particular angle

2750
02:02:57,960 --> 02:02:56,260
of research right now I'm not so much

2751
02:03:00,240 --> 02:02:57,970
into going out and looking at more dead

2752
02:03:02,490 --> 02:03:00,250
cows it's sort of like Chris where you

2753
02:03:04,290 --> 02:03:02,500
have an embarrassment of riches it's

2754
02:03:06,750 --> 02:03:04,300
like how you talked about ufology we've

2755
02:03:08,460 --> 02:03:06,760
got so many reports we've got thousands

2756
02:03:11,460 --> 02:03:08,470
and thousands what's one more report

2757
02:03:16,500 --> 02:03:11,470
going to tell us really so I'm looking

2758
02:03:18,090 --> 02:03:16,510
at more macro ideas in terms of what

2759
02:03:19,820 --> 02:03:18,100
could possibly explain this and this is

2760
02:03:23,010 --> 02:03:19,830
where it gets a little complicated but

2761
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:23,020
the trickster is such a key figure here

2762
02:03:29,460 --> 02:03:24,610
and I'm glad Chris wrote a whole book

2763
02:03:31,100 --> 02:03:29,470
about it that this particular archetype

2764
02:03:33,840 --> 02:03:31,110
I guess you could call it it's a

2765
02:03:36,480 --> 02:03:33,850
mythological image that carries over

2766
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:36,490
culture to culture it's part of what

2767
02:03:42,750 --> 02:03:38,530
Carl Jung the psychologist would call a

2768
02:03:47,070 --> 02:03:42,760
collective unconscious so I'm looking at

2769
02:03:50,100 --> 02:03:47,080
the areas where possibly the another

2770
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:50,110
energy could be involved that people say

2771
02:03:55,590 --> 02:03:52,210
well whatever different mutilations is

2772
02:03:59,670 --> 02:03:55,600
non-human intelligence and I was back at

2773
02:04:01,110 --> 02:03:59,680
that particular term what because I'm

2774
02:04:03,420 --> 02:04:01,120
not really sure what non-human

2775
02:04:05,970 --> 02:04:03,430
intelligence is maybe no elephants but

2776
02:04:07,870 --> 02:04:05,980
dolphins aren't walking on the land and

2777
02:04:14,050 --> 02:04:07,880
right getting cattle sure

2778
02:04:16,510 --> 02:04:14,060
not typically not typically so the

2779
02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:16,520
dolphins are really flying in their UFO

2780
02:04:22,630 --> 02:04:19,970
well the nonhuman intelligence is sort

2781
02:04:24,730 --> 02:04:22,640
of like a code word for extraterrestrial

2782
02:04:26,860 --> 02:04:24,740
intelligence really when people say that

2783
02:04:31,300 --> 02:04:26,870
it's a nonhuman intelligence I'm not so

2784
02:04:33,730 --> 02:04:31,310
sure it is and then to segue into the

2785
02:04:38,230 --> 02:04:33,740
next area where I'm very interested in

2786
02:04:39,940 --> 02:04:38,240
is Gaia the Gaia hypothesis which is the

2787
02:04:40,690 --> 02:04:39,950
idea that the earth is one living

2788
02:04:44,050 --> 02:04:40,700
organism

2789
02:04:46,690 --> 02:04:44,060
this is pioneered by James Lovelock back

2790
02:04:49,750 --> 02:04:46,700
in the mid-60s around the time snippy

2791
02:04:53,200 --> 02:04:49,760
was mutilated but the idea is that there

2792
02:04:56,800 --> 02:04:53,210
is a sentient intelligent being that

2793
02:05:00,310 --> 02:04:56,810
regulates itself with the maximum effect

2794
02:05:04,030 --> 02:05:00,320
of creating the perfect conditions for

2795
02:05:08,650 --> 02:05:04,040
life so this when Lovelock came out with

2796
02:05:10,060 --> 02:05:08,660
this idea he was roundly thumped by the

2797
02:05:12,670 --> 02:05:10,070
scientific community it's like what do

2798
02:05:14,260 --> 02:05:12,680
you mean how can this be an intelligent

2799
02:05:17,320 --> 02:05:14,270
being how can it be a sentient meat

2800
02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:17,330
being because that goes against that

2801
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:20,570
implies what the gall teleology which

2802
02:05:26,140 --> 02:05:22,610
means that the purpose of life or the

2803
02:05:29,620 --> 02:05:26,150
purpose of something is a a goal and

2804
02:05:31,720 --> 02:05:29,630
it's heading and it has a purpose a true

2805
02:05:36,130 --> 02:05:31,730
Darwinian would say there is no purpose

2806
02:05:38,040 --> 02:05:36,140
it's all random processes so basically

2807
02:05:40,300 --> 02:05:38,050
the Lovelock got cut off with the knees

2808
02:05:42,940 --> 02:05:40,310
by the scientific community

2809
02:05:44,260 --> 02:05:42,950
by saying how dare you you know that and

2810
02:05:46,510 --> 02:05:44,270
then he had to come out and backtrack

2811
02:05:49,570 --> 02:05:46,520
and say well I'm not saying that Gaia is

2812
02:05:52,330 --> 02:05:49,580
a sentient being and it's no surrogate

2813
02:05:54,160 --> 02:05:52,340
for God that's for sure sorry created a

2814
02:05:58,270 --> 02:05:54,170
huge division which is still being

2815
02:06:01,090 --> 02:05:58,280
fought out today however my interest

2816
02:06:04,210 --> 02:06:01,100
right now is to blast on through with

2817
02:06:07,480 --> 02:06:04,220
seeing Lovelock's theory to its logical

2818
02:06:09,220 --> 02:06:07,490
conclusion which is okay what if it is a

2819
02:06:11,590 --> 02:06:09,230
sentient being what if it does have

2820
02:06:14,440 --> 02:06:11,600
intelligence that say it does have a

2821
02:06:16,870 --> 02:06:14,450
form of consciousness and purpose how

2822
02:06:18,820 --> 02:06:16,880
does that interact with our conscious

2823
02:06:21,250 --> 02:06:18,830
minds how does that interact with our

2824
02:06:21,850 --> 02:06:21,260
unconscious minds and what are the

2825
02:06:24,640 --> 02:06:21,860
possible

2826
02:06:28,709 --> 02:06:24,650
these that something like the

2827
02:06:31,859 --> 02:06:28,719
mutilations can be some form of giant

2828
02:06:35,020 --> 02:06:31,869
mechanism a biological mechanism perhaps

2829
02:06:38,169 --> 02:06:35,030
for what purpose is a bit unclear but

2830
02:06:41,320 --> 02:06:38,179
are my ideas more than I will go into at

2831
02:06:43,330 --> 02:06:41,330
the moment but so I'm looking in those

2832
02:06:45,760 --> 02:06:43,340
areas it's like what other intelligence

2833
02:06:48,189 --> 02:06:45,770
could be at work here and perhaps the

2834
02:06:50,439 --> 02:06:48,199
answer is right under our nose we

2835
02:06:53,620 --> 02:06:50,449
haven't looked there really there's also

2836
02:06:56,399 --> 02:06:53,630
the evolutionary imperative which you

2837
02:07:00,220 --> 02:06:56,409
know would obviously deserve an entire

2838
02:07:02,290 --> 02:07:00,230
series of shows know to talk about but

2839
02:07:05,350 --> 02:07:02,300
you know David is has come up with the

2840
02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:05,360
idea that possibly certain kinds or

2841
02:07:11,859 --> 02:07:07,850
maybe perhaps all kinds of paranormal

2842
02:07:14,109 --> 02:07:11,869
phenomena that have some sort of sci-fi

2843
02:07:16,720 --> 02:07:14,119
kind of element to it whether it's UFOs

2844
02:07:19,390 --> 02:07:16,730
whether it's mystery the Slains of

2845
02:07:21,490 --> 02:07:19,400
livestock maybe it's trying to pull us

2846
02:07:24,280 --> 02:07:21,500
off planet because we know this earth is

2847
02:07:26,709 --> 02:07:24,290
going to get hit by a you know an epic

2848
02:07:29,500 --> 02:07:26,719
ending asteroid or we're gonna have a

2849
02:07:32,379 --> 02:07:29,510
you know a coronal mass ejection that's

2850
02:07:34,510 --> 02:07:32,389
gonna fry the planet the the Suns gonna

2851
02:07:36,790 --> 02:07:34,520
go supernova at some point and we have

2852
02:07:40,030 --> 02:07:36,800
to get off this this rock in space and

2853
02:07:42,850 --> 02:07:40,040
perhaps some sort of Guyon imperative or

2854
02:07:45,459 --> 02:07:42,860
intelligence if you will is attempting

2855
02:07:48,760 --> 02:07:45,469
to loose off the planet is trying to

2856
02:07:52,240 --> 02:07:48,770
trick us to to go out and see the you

2857
02:07:54,580 --> 02:07:52,250
know the human genome off planet and and

2858
02:07:57,220 --> 02:07:54,590
get us out there into the stars so that

2859
02:08:00,000 --> 02:07:57,230
we can we can perpetuate this this

2860
02:08:02,859 --> 02:08:00,010
wonderful experiment that we we know as

2861
02:08:06,580 --> 02:08:02,869
humanity out into the Stars and save us

2862
02:08:08,580 --> 02:08:06,590
from eventual doom yeah that's where we

2863
02:08:11,229 --> 02:08:08,590
were talking earlier about the memes and

2864
02:08:15,010 --> 02:08:11,239
we've covered this in your books a fair

2865
02:08:17,109 --> 02:08:15,020
amount at one of your four words I wrote

2866
02:08:19,600 --> 02:08:17,119
about the origin of the

2867
02:08:21,580 --> 02:08:19,610
extra-terrestrial meme basically goes

2868
02:08:24,520 --> 02:08:21,590
all the way back to the 5th century BC

2869
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:24,530
and Greece to the idea of plurality of

2870
02:08:31,120 --> 02:08:28,010
worlds and even 500 years before beat

2871
02:08:32,530 --> 02:08:31,130
you know Christ they were walking around

2872
02:08:33,669 --> 02:08:32,540
in Greece saying oh yeah they're worlds

2873
02:08:35,320 --> 02:08:33,679
out there they're people just like us

2874
02:08:35,960 --> 02:08:35,330
walking around talking about the same

2875
02:08:37,550 --> 02:08:35,970
kind of stuff

2876
02:08:40,730 --> 02:08:37,560
there are people all over the place in

2877
02:08:43,100 --> 02:08:40,740
this universe and those 500 years BC and

2878
02:08:45,590 --> 02:08:43,110
that was basically the origin of that of

2879
02:08:48,800 --> 02:08:45,600
an extraterrestrial meme which you know

2880
02:08:50,810 --> 02:08:48,810
you travel on through time and and by

2881
02:08:53,560 --> 02:08:50,820
the time it hit modern times we had you

2882
02:08:58,520 --> 02:08:53,570
know science fiction War of the Worlds

2883
02:09:02,120 --> 02:08:58,530
HG Wells Jules Verne the age of flying

2884
02:09:05,480 --> 02:09:02,130
saucers all of these memes either

2885
02:09:07,280 --> 02:09:05,490
created what I call a memeplex and in

2886
02:09:10,100 --> 02:09:07,290
other words the mean will glom on to

2887
02:09:12,650 --> 02:09:10,110
other memes just so they all have a

2888
02:09:15,620 --> 02:09:12,660
better chance of perpetuating themselves

2889
02:09:17,870 --> 02:09:15,630
in this instance the ET même is

2890
02:09:20,330 --> 02:09:17,880
bolstered by the cattle mutilations that

2891
02:09:22,030 --> 02:09:20,340
has been the net effect of of the cattle

2892
02:09:24,860 --> 02:09:22,040
mutilations it's in the popular culture

2893
02:09:27,050 --> 02:09:24,870
it's down to the level of the rancher

2894
02:09:29,960 --> 02:09:27,060
out in the field it's everywhere they

2895
02:09:34,010 --> 02:09:29,970
use it to sell deodorant UFOs zapping

2896
02:09:37,130 --> 02:09:34,020
cows maybe that's it's totally pervasive

2897
02:09:39,940 --> 02:09:37,140
so the meme is Japan abductions or

2898
02:09:43,730 --> 02:09:39,950
another kind of mini-me my column and

2899
02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:43,740
that's the graph across circles and all

2900
02:09:49,100 --> 02:09:46,050
of these things have created a giant

2901
02:09:51,320 --> 02:09:49,110
memeplex which perpetuates the idea of

2902
02:09:53,930 --> 02:09:51,330
extraterrestrial life and of flying

2903
02:09:55,910 --> 02:09:53,940
saucers which is again one of those

2904
02:09:58,400 --> 02:09:55,920
things it's pulling us in the future and

2905
02:10:00,320 --> 02:09:58,410
preparing us mentally to get off planet

2906
02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:00,330
I'll tell you what I somebody's like to

2907
02:10:06,940 --> 02:10:02,610
do that and I like the concept of the

2908
02:10:10,790 --> 02:10:06,950
mean flex really do because you wonder

2909
02:10:12,680 --> 02:10:10,800
okay if this is just to take us to

2910
02:10:14,630 --> 02:10:12,690
another step in our evolution what is

2911
02:10:17,120 --> 02:10:14,640
the real truth behind it we have David

2912
02:10:20,150 --> 02:10:17,130
Perkins joining gene and Chris the book

2913
02:10:25,179 --> 02:10:20,160
is stalking the herd you're in the power

2914
02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:28,129
free from the shackles of Corporate

2915
02:10:37,399 --> 02:10:31,010
America we're the place for independent

2916
02:10:39,739 --> 02:10:37,409
thinkers graphic converter is the image

2917
02:10:42,649 --> 02:10:39,749
manipulation tool for the rest of us it

2918
02:10:44,839 --> 02:10:42,659
does not use any database you get full

2919
02:10:47,239 --> 02:10:44,849
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2920
02:10:49,729 --> 02:10:47,249
the images of a folder drag it into

2921
02:10:52,520 --> 02:10:49,739
graphic converter and a powerful browser

2922
02:10:54,589 --> 02:10:52,530
opens up to show your image files you

2923
02:10:56,870 --> 02:10:54,599
could use it for slideshows you could

2924
02:10:59,209 --> 02:10:56,880
use it to import images from digital

2925
02:11:01,370 --> 02:10:59,219
cameras or from scanners need to do some

2926
02:11:03,709 --> 02:11:01,380
image editing you can do that too and

2927
02:11:06,020 --> 02:11:03,719
graphic converter also print catalogs

2928
02:11:08,209 --> 02:11:06,030
convert from so many formats

2929
02:11:10,669 --> 02:11:08,219
I can't even list them download now to

2930
02:11:13,969 --> 02:11:10,679
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2931
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like one and a half million other users

2932
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guess what you could save money when you

2933
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buy graphic converter use the coupon

2934
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code Nite Owl use the coupon code night

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how to get a special price for graphic

2936
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2937
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MK e soft calm Lemke soft calm l e MK e

2938
02:11:41,689 --> 02:11:39,869
soft calm this alert just came in this

2939
02:11:44,149 --> 02:11:41,699
special announcement is for business

2940
02:11:45,949 --> 02:11:44,159
owners and leaders of organizations who

2941
02:11:48,439 --> 02:11:45,959
have been waiting for the right time to

2942
02:11:50,179 --> 02:11:48,449
bill general steel has made it

2943
02:11:52,069 --> 02:11:50,189
impossible to wait any longer with

2944
02:11:54,229 --> 02:11:52,079
rock-bottom prices that could save you

2945
02:11:56,239 --> 02:11:54,239
thousands that's right general steel

2946
02:11:58,250 --> 02:11:56,249
America's leader in pre engineered

2947
02:12:00,350 --> 02:11:58,260
structures is offering buildings at

2948
02:12:03,370 --> 02:12:00,360
prices you will never see again don't

2949
02:12:04,549 --> 02:12:03,380
miss these prices a 50 by 100 for under

2950
02:12:06,589 --> 02:12:04,559
$30,000

2951
02:12:09,500 --> 02:12:06,599
you heard right that's 5000 square feet

2952
02:12:11,390 --> 02:12:09,510
under $30,000 manufacturers if you need

2953
02:12:13,100 --> 02:12:11,400
a larger building try a 100 by 100

2954
02:12:15,020 --> 02:12:13,110
commercial building for a hundred and

2955
02:12:17,120 --> 02:12:15,030
twenty nine thousand you can't afford to

2956
02:12:19,129 --> 02:12:17,130
rent with these prices imagine a 70 by

2957
02:12:21,080 --> 02:12:19,139
100 foot church building for under sixty

2958
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:21,090
nine thousand dollars with the economy

2959
02:12:25,129 --> 02:12:23,010
improving and interest rate still at

2960
02:12:28,370 --> 02:12:25,139
historic lows you can't afford to wait

2961
02:12:30,199 --> 02:12:28,380
so call eight six six 91 steel plucking

2962
02:12:32,810 --> 02:12:30,209
your price now take delivery in spring

2963
02:12:35,609 --> 02:12:32,820
eight six six ninety one steel that's

2964
02:12:43,830 --> 02:12:35,619
eight six six nine one seven eight

2965
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:43,840
3:35 burglars look for houses that

2966
02:12:49,469 --> 02:12:46,570
appeared to be easy targets but fake TV

2967
02:12:51,239 --> 02:12:49,479
can fool even professional burglars into

2968
02:13:03,119 --> 02:12:51,249
thinking someone is home watching

2969
02:13:06,330 --> 02:13:03,129
television watching TV when I'm actually

2970
02:13:08,489 --> 02:13:06,340
away from home fake TV easily plugs into

2971
02:13:11,279 --> 02:13:08,499
any outlet just like a light on a timer

2972
02:13:12,959 --> 02:13:11,289
and they're so easy to use you just plug

2973
02:13:14,699 --> 02:13:12,969
them in and they're ready to go plus

2974
02:13:17,520 --> 02:13:14,709
they're so affordable that we have one

2975
02:13:20,850 --> 02:13:17,530
upstairs and downstairs fake TV is only

2976
02:13:23,369 --> 02:13:20,860
29.95 with free shipping order your fake

2977
02:13:27,149 --> 02:13:23,379
TV by calling eight seven seven five

2978
02:13:29,549 --> 02:13:27,159
fake TV or go to fake tv.com that's

2979
02:13:34,350 --> 02:13:29,559
eight seven seven five three two five

2980
02:13:38,189 --> 02:13:34,360
three eight eight or fake tv.com fake TV

2981
02:13:40,290 --> 02:13:38,199
the burglar deterrent great news pure

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berkey for emergency preparedness as a

2990
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2991
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beat a big berkey to remove dangerous

2992
02:14:06,089 --> 02:14:02,579
chlorine all types of fluoride

2993
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2996
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2997
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2998
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2999
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3000
02:14:25,859 --> 02:14:23,199
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3001
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3003
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3004
02:14:39,470 --> 02:14:34,809
ey big berkey water filters for the love

3005
02:14:45,870 --> 02:14:42,989
hi this is Ted Phillips listening to the

3006
02:14:54,779 --> 02:14:45,880
parrot cast and it's as good as it gets

3007
02:14:56,669 --> 02:14:54,789
believe me we still have some questions

3008
02:14:58,350 --> 02:14:56,679
out there from our listeners but we have

3009
02:15:00,959 --> 02:14:58,360
a lots more to talk about with David

3010
02:15:03,330 --> 02:15:00,969
Perkins and of course we're focusing on

3011
02:15:06,330 --> 02:15:03,340
stocking the heard about cattle

3012
02:15:09,529 --> 02:15:06,340
mutilations and I like your idea here

3013
02:15:13,049 --> 02:15:09,539
David about meme plexus but that implies

3014
02:15:15,029 --> 02:15:13,059
that we believe in something that may

3015
02:15:17,580 --> 02:15:15,039
not be the case but it's part of our

3016
02:15:19,859 --> 02:15:17,590
evolutionary cycle so what do you think

3017
02:15:25,080 --> 02:15:19,869
well I was wondering when he said mini

3018
02:15:31,169 --> 02:15:29,310
mini meme yeah well it means this is

3019
02:15:32,640 --> 02:15:31,179
this is the fascinating research to me

3020
02:15:34,589 --> 02:15:32,650
right now it's what keeps me going is

3021
02:15:38,069 --> 02:15:34,599
this by the way we're not gonna get sued

3022
02:15:40,680 --> 02:15:38,079
by verne troyer if we continue using the

3023
02:15:43,680 --> 02:15:40,690
word mini oh all righty

3024
02:15:46,020 --> 02:15:43,690
well that's I'm lucky at it from an

3025
02:15:48,450 --> 02:15:46,030
evolutionary point of view and it's like

3026
02:15:51,060 --> 02:15:48,460
McKenna Terence Mckenna says something

3027
02:15:54,989 --> 02:15:51,070
like getting off the planet is the great

3028
02:15:56,819 --> 02:15:54,999
goal of all biology you know that we we

3029
02:15:59,790 --> 02:15:56,829
will be destroyed eventually if we don't

3030
02:16:03,950 --> 02:15:59,800
get off the planet and the the nature of

3031
02:16:07,350 --> 02:16:03,960
life is to find survival strategies and

3032
02:16:09,660 --> 02:16:07,360
whether those with us as those may come

3033
02:16:12,120 --> 02:16:09,670
in an unconscious form and they may come

3034
02:16:14,819 --> 02:16:12,130
in a very conscious form I think there's

3035
02:16:16,200 --> 02:16:14,829
an unconscious element to it that we

3036
02:16:18,330 --> 02:16:16,210
don't quite know why we're doing what

3037
02:16:20,250 --> 02:16:18,340
we're doing but or believing what we're

3038
02:16:23,729 --> 02:16:20,260
believing but it's paving the way for

3039
02:16:27,720 --> 02:16:23,739
these these next big steps if we're

3040
02:16:30,029 --> 02:16:27,730
going to be moved into space why did the

3041
02:16:32,040 --> 02:16:30,039
space program essentially get canceled

3042
02:16:34,740 --> 02:16:32,050
it's not much being done with it even

3043
02:16:36,059 --> 02:16:34,750
these baby steps taken by private

3044
02:16:39,120 --> 02:16:36,069
industry aren't doing well we don't

3045
02:16:40,709 --> 02:16:39,130
really know the Richard öhlins idea of

3046
02:16:42,870 --> 02:16:40,719
the breakaway civilization Joseph

3047
02:16:46,950 --> 02:16:42,880
Ferrell others have mentioned that there

3048
02:16:48,870 --> 02:16:46,960
may be a you know a stovepipe program

3049
02:16:51,419 --> 02:16:48,880
that already has a soft planet

3050
02:16:57,150 --> 02:16:51,429
potentially

3051
02:16:58,589 --> 02:16:57,160
don't think so answer to that I'm a

3052
02:17:01,950 --> 02:16:58,599
member of all the you know the space

3053
02:17:04,439 --> 02:17:01,960
groups the planetary societies and all

3054
02:17:06,179 --> 02:17:04,449
this and I read their bulletins that I'm

3055
02:17:08,459 --> 02:17:06,189
kind of amazed how much stuff is going

3056
02:17:12,479 --> 02:17:08,469
on it doesn't really make big news you

3057
02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:12,489
know for me the idea and they're not too

3058
02:17:20,250 --> 02:17:17,370
recent not in the recent past we sent a

3059
02:17:23,400 --> 02:17:20,260
probe to intercept an asteroid which was

3060
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:23,410
millions of miles away and we landed a

3061
02:17:29,849 --> 02:17:27,010
camera on it that was sending back video

3062
02:17:31,200 --> 02:17:29,859
to within three feet of impact of the

3063
02:17:33,750 --> 02:17:31,210
surface and I thought boy that is a

3064
02:17:37,080 --> 02:17:33,760
piece of engineering I mean that is

3065
02:17:38,400 --> 02:17:37,090
remarkable whoever came up with that and

3066
02:17:40,679 --> 02:17:38,410
we're doing all that kind of stuff we're

3067
02:17:41,879 --> 02:17:40,689
studying how to divert asteroids I keep

3068
02:17:44,820 --> 02:17:41,889
getting these things okay the latest

3069
02:17:48,719 --> 02:17:44,830
thing is the laser bees I think they're

3070
02:17:50,549 --> 02:17:48,729
called it's a swarm of little satellite

3071
02:17:52,049 --> 02:17:50,559
things that we if an asteroid is heading

3072
02:17:53,879 --> 02:17:52,059
toward the earth thrilled and figure out

3073
02:17:56,219 --> 02:17:53,889
how to deflect it with mirrors will heat

3074
02:17:57,929 --> 02:17:56,229
it up will do this will move it they'll

3075
02:17:59,250 --> 02:17:57,939
gently nudge it off its course and all

3076
02:18:01,830 --> 02:17:59,260
these different techniques with solar

3077
02:18:03,150 --> 02:18:01,840
sails and boy they're working all the

3078
02:18:06,209 --> 02:18:03,160
time trying to figure this out

3079
02:18:10,919 --> 02:18:06,219
we'll just call up Ben Affleck and Bruce

3080
02:18:12,509 --> 02:18:10,929
Willis and they're really over but those

3081
02:18:13,919 --> 02:18:12,519
are images those are memes that are

3082
02:18:15,629 --> 02:18:13,929
planted in our heads like well we

3083
02:18:17,879 --> 02:18:15,639
someday we may have to divert an

3084
02:18:18,419 --> 02:18:17,889
asteroid out gee really we might have to

3085
02:18:20,729 --> 02:18:18,429
do this

3086
02:18:24,209 --> 02:18:20,739
so anything that promotes the idea of a

3087
02:18:26,879 --> 02:18:24,219
spacefaring civilization including these

3088
02:18:30,299 --> 02:18:26,889
meme flexes that I've been describing is

3089
02:18:33,750 --> 02:18:30,309
part of an overall survival strategy for

3090
02:18:36,330 --> 02:18:33,760
us and or Gaia I'd still love to see a

3091
02:18:38,160 --> 02:18:36,340
public program where we're going to the

3092
02:18:40,769 --> 02:18:38,170
Moon and Mars and elsewhere Chris some

3093
02:18:44,040 --> 02:18:40,779
more questions well here's one that's

3094
02:18:46,620 --> 02:18:44,050
yeah I think I kind of surprised David

3095
02:18:48,839 --> 02:18:46,630
with this observation early on but this

3096
02:18:51,900 --> 02:18:48,849
comes from Wade woods Dale who's one of

3097
02:18:55,740 --> 02:18:51,910
our real active posters at forum dr.

3098
02:18:58,349 --> 02:18:55,750
Perry cast calm and he kind of sums it

3099
02:19:00,719 --> 02:18:58,359
up pretty well here and and imposes a

3100
02:19:02,669 --> 02:19:00,729
question if one of the major reasons for

3101
02:19:05,099 --> 02:19:02,679
cattle mutilations is

3102
02:19:07,379 --> 02:19:05,109
the name is in the name of environmental

3103
02:19:09,719 --> 02:19:07,389
monitoring and done by black-op type

3104
02:19:12,660 --> 02:19:09,729
government agencies here in the US and

3105
02:19:14,610 --> 02:19:12,670
maybe elsewhere why do you think that

3106
02:19:16,919 --> 02:19:14,620
the Brahmin breed is still left

3107
02:19:18,689 --> 02:19:16,929
untouched would these cattle not be

3108
02:19:20,280 --> 02:19:18,699
susceptible to the same environmental

3109
02:19:21,839 --> 02:19:20,290
pollutants as other breeds is there

3110
02:19:23,870 --> 02:19:21,849
something about their organs that would

3111
02:19:26,009 --> 02:19:23,880
make them less desirable for monitoring

3112
02:19:28,169 --> 02:19:26,019
granted there are probably a number of

3113
02:19:30,240 --> 02:19:28,179
reasons for the mute mystery but it all

3114
02:19:36,269 --> 02:19:30,250
involves seemed to regard the Brahma

3115
02:19:38,790 --> 02:19:36,279
breed as bovine non grata have you David

3116
02:19:42,599 --> 02:19:38,800
Perkins found a single case of a Brahma

3117
02:19:44,729 --> 02:19:42,609
cow bull or steer or calf that has been

3118
02:19:49,019 --> 02:19:44,739
found in a mutilated condition anywhere

3119
02:19:54,030 --> 02:19:49,029
well we the best I came up with was that

3120
02:19:55,889 --> 02:19:54,040
half brahmin mutilation that's one case

3121
02:19:57,679 --> 02:19:55,899
yeah you covered this really well in

3122
02:20:01,590 --> 02:19:57,689
your book in terms of talking about the

3123
02:20:04,679 --> 02:20:01,600
cultural spin notice that whatever

3124
02:20:06,479 --> 02:20:04,689
that's put on various paranormal

3125
02:20:09,510 --> 02:20:06,489
phenomenon mutilations for instance you

3126
02:20:13,260 --> 02:20:09,520
make the great observation that this is

3127
02:20:15,260 --> 02:20:13,270
a Christian country phenomenon the

3128
02:20:19,380 --> 02:20:15,270
mutilations are not reported in

3129
02:20:21,540 --> 02:20:19,390
non-christian countries obviously the

3130
02:20:24,570 --> 02:20:21,550
Brahman is sacred in Hindu culture in

3131
02:20:26,040 --> 02:20:24,580
India no mutilations there what they

3132
02:20:28,500 --> 02:20:26,050
don't have environmental problems there

3133
02:20:31,139 --> 02:20:28,510
I don't know so you've got to look at

3134
02:20:34,080 --> 02:20:31,149
yeah that was just an amazing

3135
02:20:35,309 --> 02:20:34,090
observation of worldwide you map out all

3136
02:20:38,189 --> 02:20:35,319
the countries where they've happened

3137
02:20:40,590 --> 02:20:38,199
they're all Christian countries that is

3138
02:20:40,920 --> 02:20:40,600
an anomaly within an anomaly boy I'll

3139
02:20:43,740 --> 02:20:40,930
say

3140
02:20:48,290 --> 02:20:43,750
I love these stories of the lifters

3141
02:20:51,630 --> 02:20:48,300
these gangs of Indian youths that

3142
02:20:53,580 --> 02:20:51,640
convert garbage trucks into cattle

3143
02:20:56,519 --> 02:20:53,590
nabbing vehicles and they they go around

3144
02:20:58,469 --> 02:20:56,529
at night and lure cattle up ramps into

3145
02:21:03,500 --> 02:20:58,479
garbage trucks and then have them render

3146
02:21:07,710 --> 02:21:03,510
that illegal highly you know profitable

3147
02:21:10,469 --> 02:21:07,720
secret rendering operations so I think

3148
02:21:13,650 --> 02:21:10,479
we're slowly starting to see that that

3149
02:21:16,019 --> 02:21:13,660
Indian subcontinent being you know

3150
02:21:17,240 --> 02:21:16,029
changing it's cold it's very ancient

3151
02:21:21,060 --> 02:21:17,250
cult

3152
02:21:23,881 --> 02:21:21,070
worship of the Brahma cow which is the

3153
02:21:26,310 --> 02:21:23,891
predominant breed of cattle in in India

3154
02:21:28,680 --> 02:21:26,320
but one thing that I was also surprised

3155
02:21:33,261 --> 02:21:28,690
to find is the India is the largest the

3156
02:21:34,950 --> 02:21:33,271
world's largest exporter of beef yeah

3157
02:21:37,640 --> 02:21:34,960
amazing huh

3158
02:21:43,410 --> 02:21:37,650
that was another showstopper yeah

3159
02:21:44,820 --> 02:21:43,420
stopping a lot of shows here well if

3160
02:21:46,200 --> 02:21:44,830
they're not gonna eat him in India they

3161
02:21:50,100 --> 02:21:46,210
might as well make some money off him

3162
02:21:53,041 --> 02:21:50,110
right a dad is 17,000 McDonald's in the

3163
02:21:56,430 --> 02:21:53,051
world I think there's what 270 in India

3164
02:21:58,881 --> 02:21:56,440
or 300 outlets and none of them serve

3165
02:22:01,291 --> 02:21:58,891
beef yeah good point

3166
02:22:04,200 --> 02:22:01,301
well we haven't even talked about my

3167
02:22:05,881 --> 02:22:04,210
favorite theory which is kind of an

3168
02:22:08,730 --> 02:22:05,891
offshoot of the environmental monitoring

3169
02:22:13,400 --> 02:22:08,740
theory but the whole idea of mad cow

3170
02:22:17,180 --> 02:22:13,410
disease possibly being some sort of

3171
02:22:19,470 --> 02:22:17,190
inadvertently escaped weaponized form of

3172
02:22:24,961 --> 02:22:19,480
transmissible spongiform encephalopathy

3173
02:22:27,120 --> 02:22:24,971
and that possibly one agenda that's

3174
02:22:29,341 --> 02:22:27,130
dovetailed with with others as we've

3175
02:22:31,261 --> 02:22:29,351
discussed may be to monitor the

3176
02:22:32,671 --> 02:22:31,271
potential spread of mad cow disease in

3177
02:22:35,370 --> 02:22:32,681
the environment what do you think of

3178
02:22:38,610 --> 02:22:35,380
that particular theory David I think

3179
02:22:40,230 --> 02:22:38,620
it's pretty good theory I it's one of

3180
02:22:41,640 --> 02:22:40,240
those that we could build up pretty far

3181
02:22:46,770 --> 02:22:41,650
and then I think I could tear it down

3182
02:22:50,430 --> 02:22:46,780
pretty far but it's it's quite

3183
02:22:52,171 --> 02:22:50,440
interesting and I'm kind of amazed in a

3184
02:22:59,301 --> 02:22:52,181
way that the needs would come up with

3185
02:23:02,011 --> 02:22:59,311
this comb Kelliher but yeah I mean after

3186
02:23:04,560 --> 02:23:02,021
even hearing to say Greg talked the

3187
02:23:06,620 --> 02:23:04,570
other day about Gabe and Valdez and his

3188
02:23:09,331 --> 02:23:06,630
experience with knids it's almost like

3189
02:23:12,780 --> 02:23:09,341
gate wasn't aware of what went on on the

3190
02:23:15,870 --> 02:23:12,790
so-called skinwalker ranch right and

3191
02:23:18,091 --> 02:23:15,880
talk about attendant phenomena that it

3192
02:23:22,110 --> 02:23:18,101
was just everything they're just

3193
02:23:24,930 --> 02:23:22,120
complete nutso paranormal Wonderland you

3194
02:23:26,461 --> 02:23:24,940
know and to weave that out to wheat all

3195
02:23:27,770 --> 02:23:26,471
those other things out the attendant

3196
02:23:29,841 --> 02:23:27,780
phenomena and say okay well

3197
02:23:31,341 --> 02:23:29,851
this cow was cut up and this parts were

3198
02:23:34,400 --> 02:23:31,351
taken and that's what's consistent with

3199
02:23:36,190 --> 02:23:34,410
testing for prion diseases it's like

3200
02:23:39,410 --> 02:23:36,200
okay but what about all this other stuff

3201
02:23:41,211 --> 02:23:39,420
well that doesn't relate right now so

3202
02:23:44,511 --> 02:23:41,221
that's problematic to me it's just

3203
02:23:45,950 --> 02:23:44,521
problematic but you know that's the same

3204
02:23:47,600 --> 02:23:45,960
problem I have with my own nuclear

3205
02:23:49,430 --> 02:23:47,610
theory I mean it just doesn't seem to

3206
02:23:51,110 --> 02:23:49,440
explain all the evidence there's just

3207
02:23:52,580 --> 02:23:51,120
too many other loose ends floating

3208
02:23:55,040 --> 02:23:52,590
around okay

3209
02:23:56,360 --> 02:23:55,050
that that just don't plug in so if

3210
02:23:57,860 --> 02:23:56,370
you're gonna have a really comprehensive

3211
02:24:01,341 --> 02:23:57,870
theory you've got to have something that

3212
02:24:02,930 --> 02:24:01,351
allows all of that evidence in have

3213
02:24:05,870 --> 02:24:02,940
another segment where we're going to

3214
02:24:09,110 --> 02:24:05,880
allow all of the evidence in Chris's

3215
02:24:12,560 --> 02:24:09,120
book is stalking the herd go to stalking

3216
02:24:14,720 --> 02:24:12,570
the herd calm place your order for the

3217
02:24:18,320 --> 02:24:14,730
book and Chris will sign it how about

3218
02:24:26,360 --> 02:24:18,330
that until his hands are worn out with

3219
02:24:28,461 --> 02:24:26,370
Gina and Chris you're in the nation's

3220
02:24:31,490 --> 02:24:28,471
largest independently owned and operated

3221
02:24:36,350 --> 02:24:31,500
talk radio network the genesis

3222
02:24:38,390 --> 02:24:36,360
communications network G C an attack of

3223
02:24:40,700 --> 02:24:38,400
the rock ODEs has been well received by

3224
02:24:42,801 --> 02:24:40,710
critics and readers alike it's a thrill

3225
02:24:45,140 --> 02:24:42,811
a minute story you'll never forget a

3226
02:24:47,810 --> 02:24:45,150
former US military intelligence officer

3227
02:24:50,301 --> 02:24:47,820
is haunted by intense dreams about a

3228
02:24:52,751 --> 02:24:50,311
beautiful woman pleading for his help

3229
02:24:55,251 --> 02:24:52,761
after a terrible battle in outer space

3230
02:24:57,620 --> 02:24:55,261
but the dreams turn out to be true and

3231
02:24:59,990 --> 02:24:57,630
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

3232
02:25:03,200 --> 02:25:00,000
with a woman whose faraway planet is

3233
02:25:05,421 --> 02:25:03,210
intent on destroying the earth and now

3234
02:25:08,150 --> 02:25:05,431
the gripping tale continues in the

3235
02:25:10,881 --> 02:25:08,160
coming of the protectors it's the second

3236
02:25:12,740 --> 02:25:10,891
book of the Rockets trilogy a galaxy

3237
02:25:15,501 --> 02:25:12,750
spanning adventure that pits our hapless

3238
02:25:17,570 --> 02:25:15,511
heroes against powerful fanatical

3239
02:25:20,480 --> 02:25:17,580
enemies that threaten the lives of

3240
02:25:22,970 --> 02:25:20,490
freedom loving beings everywhere attack

3241
02:25:25,850 --> 02:25:22,980
of the rockets and the coming of the

3242
02:25:29,120 --> 02:25:25,860
protectors classic science fiction at

3243
02:25:31,131 --> 02:25:29,130
its best available now for more details

3244
02:25:35,600 --> 02:25:31,141
visit rawhides calm

3245
02:25:37,430 --> 02:25:35,610
that's our Ock o IDs dot-com how many

3246
02:25:39,320 --> 02:25:37,440
good people procrastinate when was the

3247
02:25:40,820 --> 02:25:39,330
last time you updated your last will and

3248
02:25:41,390 --> 02:25:40,830
testament your living will and your

3249
02:25:42,950 --> 02:25:41,400
healthcare

3250
02:25:44,750 --> 02:25:42,960
of attorney if you could get these

3251
02:25:45,950 --> 02:25:44,760
documents included with your Legal

3252
02:25:48,140 --> 02:25:45,960
Shield membership for no additional

3253
02:25:49,880 --> 02:25:48,150
charge wouldn't it just make sense to

3254
02:25:52,070 --> 02:25:49,890
have the peace of mind of owning a Legal

3255
02:25:53,960 --> 02:25:52,080
Shield membership worry less and live

3256
02:25:56,420 --> 02:25:53,970
more with LS protection calm

3257
02:25:59,000 --> 02:25:56,430
that's LS protection calm or call eight

3258
02:26:01,250 --> 02:25:59,010
five five three four zero save that's

3259
02:26:03,350 --> 02:26:01,260
eight five five three four zero seven

3260
02:26:05,841 --> 02:26:03,360
two eight three results will vary from

3261
02:26:08,301 --> 02:26:05,851
case to case I'm Dave accord any

3262
02:26:10,190 --> 02:26:08,311
president and CEO of Cigna we're proud

3263
02:26:12,261 --> 02:26:10,200
to support the March of Dimes by walking

3264
02:26:14,091 --> 02:26:12,271
in the March for Babies it feels great

3265
02:26:16,100 --> 02:26:14,101
to know that the money we raise funds

3266
02:26:18,290 --> 02:26:16,110
life-saving research and programs that

3267
02:26:19,970 --> 02:26:18,300
improve the health of babies with your

3268
02:26:22,280 --> 02:26:19,980
help we can make this year better than

3269
02:26:24,261 --> 02:26:22,290
ever join Cigna and our co-workers

3270
02:26:26,060 --> 02:26:24,271
across the country in March for Babies

3271
02:26:28,790 --> 02:26:26,070
to help more moms have full-term

3272
02:26:30,740 --> 02:26:28,800
pregnancies and healthier babies start

3273
02:26:33,230 --> 02:26:30,750
your team today at March for Babies @

3274
02:26:36,880 --> 02:26:33,240
org and March to help our babies thank

3275
02:26:42,290 --> 02:26:39,920
for over five years you've been hearing

3276
02:26:44,750 --> 02:26:42,300
about the Berkey guy so you may know a

3277
02:26:47,150 --> 02:26:44,760
few things about him for example you are

3278
02:26:49,070 --> 02:26:47,160
well aware of the superior quality and

3279
02:26:51,620 --> 02:26:49,080
effectiveness of berkey water filters

3280
02:26:53,630 --> 02:26:51,630
and accessories but did you know the BIR

3281
02:26:55,370 --> 02:26:53,640
Keys have had independent lab tests done

3282
02:26:57,950 --> 02:26:55,380
to prove just how effective they are

3283
02:27:01,250 --> 02:26:57,960
it's true and he can email you the test

3284
02:27:03,261 --> 02:27:01,260
results just visit go Berkey com you may

3285
02:27:05,270 --> 02:27:03,271
also know that the Berkey guy has helped

3286
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tens of thousands of people get better

3287
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prepared now here's something you may

3288
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not know go Berkey dot-com has amazing

3289
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specials and deals all the time on a

3290
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3291
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3292
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same-day visit the Berkey guy at Gober

3293
02:27:24,080 --> 02:27:21,510
keep calm and be sure to click the red

3294
02:27:26,360 --> 02:27:24,090
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3295
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:26,370
always call toll-free eight seven seven

3296
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3297
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again that's eight seven seven eight

3298
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eight six three six five three goldberg

3299
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e.com home of a perky guy hey gang as

3300
02:27:41,810 --> 02:27:39,570
you can imagine living with the moniker

3301
02:27:43,850 --> 02:27:41,820
america's mr. riah can be kind of tough

3302
02:27:45,051 --> 02:27:43,860
at times but you know what it's easy to

3303
02:27:47,210 --> 02:27:45,061
live up to the challenge when you're

3304
02:27:49,040 --> 02:27:47,220
feeling good hi everybody I'm Jason

3305
02:27:51,410 --> 02:27:49,050
Lewis and that's why I watch what I eat

3306
02:27:53,600 --> 02:27:51,420
and supplement my diet with great

3307
02:27:54,830 --> 02:27:53,610
products from youngevity like their

3308
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3309
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3310
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3311
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with antioxidants you know I love these

3312
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products and I'll bet you will too and

3313
02:28:08,929 --> 02:28:06,270
now you can get them all at Jason Lewis

3314
02:28:10,730 --> 02:28:08,939
team.com now look these are just the

3315
02:28:12,710 --> 02:28:10,740
things I like from youngevity but if

3316
02:28:15,679 --> 02:28:12,720
you're looking for us say a sports drink

3317
02:28:17,900 --> 02:28:15,689
endorsed by an NBA all-star or a shot of

3318
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3319
02:28:22,610 --> 02:28:20,490
the market it's all here - all you have

3320
02:28:25,610 --> 02:28:22,620
to do is go to Jason Lewis team dot-com

3321
02:28:27,860 --> 02:28:25,620
or call one eight five five three ten

3322
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3323
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three ten team get all these products

3324
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and more and feel like America's mr.

3325
02:28:44,690 --> 02:28:42,240
right it's Jason Lewis team.com hi this

3326
02:28:58,400 --> 02:28:44,700
is nuclear physicist lecturer Stanton

3327
02:29:01,429 --> 02:28:58,410
Friedman you are listening to that's

3328
02:29:04,660 --> 02:29:01,439
Chris's hands being worn out oh hell

3329
02:29:07,040 --> 02:29:04,670
inside with his feet and then fumigated

3330
02:29:09,320 --> 02:29:07,050
well you got one more segment where are

3331
02:29:12,349 --> 02:29:09,330
we we are on the final segment David

3332
02:29:14,480 --> 02:29:12,359
Perkins alright we'll be subbing it up

3333
02:29:17,150 --> 02:29:14,490
or what I don't know take your questions

3334
02:29:21,530 --> 02:29:17,160
right we're taking questions yeah yeah

3335
02:29:24,620 --> 02:29:21,540
David let's go ahead and hear your final

3336
02:29:28,969 --> 02:29:24,630
summation here what's going on David you

3337
02:29:31,610 --> 02:29:28,979
ready I was born ready dude you know

3338
02:29:34,550 --> 02:29:31,620
that hours and hours later it's like oh

3339
02:29:38,690 --> 02:29:34,560
god is he still droning long using

3340
02:29:43,670 --> 02:29:38,700
decades later really make him go away

3341
02:29:45,950 --> 02:29:43,680
I love the case from last summer in

3342
02:29:47,570 --> 02:29:45,960
Nebraska where the ranch went out and

3343
02:29:49,550 --> 02:29:47,580
found his mutilated cow with its head

3344
02:29:51,200 --> 02:29:49,560
stuffed down a hole in the pasture yeah

3345
02:29:54,410 --> 02:29:51,210
all right I love that one that that

3346
02:29:58,820 --> 02:29:54,420
that's that's talked about a unique

3347
02:30:00,950 --> 02:29:58,830
standalone case up with that you know I

3348
02:30:02,500 --> 02:30:00,960
thought ostriches ostriches were the

3349
02:30:04,550 --> 02:30:02,510
ones that put their head in the sand

3350
02:30:06,020 --> 02:30:04,560
this is the first time I've ever heard

3351
02:30:08,591 --> 02:30:06,030
of a cow with its head stuffed down a

3352
02:30:11,390 --> 02:30:08,601
hole no mutilated

3353
02:30:12,551 --> 02:30:11,400
well that certainly dropped the show to

3354
02:30:15,560 --> 02:30:12,561
a dead stop

3355
02:30:18,620 --> 02:30:15,570
another showstopper oh yeah you're very

3356
02:30:20,330 --> 02:30:18,630
good in fact yeah especially this

3357
02:30:22,670 --> 02:30:20,340
particular episode well David come on

3358
02:30:25,070 --> 02:30:22,680
what where do we go from here we're

3359
02:30:26,511 --> 02:30:25,080
gonna be analyzing stalking the herd in

3360
02:30:29,600 --> 02:30:26,521
this book that we're going to co-author

3361
02:30:31,850 --> 02:30:29,610
together you know what are some of the

3362
02:30:35,210 --> 02:30:31,860
methodologies that that you think we

3363
02:30:37,970 --> 02:30:35,220
should be pursuing and utilizing for

3364
02:30:40,820 --> 02:30:37,980
this process and and what are some

3365
02:30:43,551 --> 02:30:40,830
avenues that excite you in terms of

3366
02:30:47,570 --> 02:30:43,561
where to go you know what road to go

3367
02:30:51,950 --> 02:30:47,580
down here are we on the show are we are

3368
02:30:56,630 --> 02:30:51,960
are we running yeah we've been quickly

3369
02:30:59,750 --> 02:30:56,640
well yeah like I say where my interests

3370
02:31:02,261 --> 02:30:59,760
lie are in these other realms that are

3371
02:31:07,070 --> 02:31:02,271
as scientific as what you're describing

3372
02:31:10,250 --> 02:31:07,080
however according to my theory Singh you

3373
02:31:14,150 --> 02:31:10,260
know monitoring the spread of prion

3374
02:31:16,640 --> 02:31:14,160
disease it might not be monitored you

3375
02:31:18,170 --> 02:31:16,650
might be pointing us to problems in our

3376
02:31:22,940 --> 02:31:18,180
environment this particular mechanism

3377
02:31:25,480 --> 02:31:22,950
that I'm trying to describe could have

3378
02:31:30,801 --> 02:31:25,490
many purposes if we know how to read it

3379
02:31:33,020 --> 02:31:30,811
you know it's sort of like a meta some

3380
02:31:34,850 --> 02:31:33,030
sort of mythological guideposts or

3381
02:31:37,820 --> 02:31:34,860
something if we can figure out what this

3382
02:31:39,650 --> 02:31:37,830
phenomena is saying that where these

3383
02:31:41,390 --> 02:31:39,660
problems are okay we have problems with

3384
02:31:43,790 --> 02:31:41,400
nuclear contamination we have problems

3385
02:31:48,380 --> 02:31:43,800
with contamination of the food chain we

3386
02:31:52,341 --> 02:31:48,390
have problems with authorities you know

3387
02:31:54,860 --> 02:31:52,351
in a new world political order I mean

3388
02:31:56,690 --> 02:31:54,870
this this is getting you know it's more

3389
02:32:00,440 --> 02:31:56,700
poetic and metaphorical than anything

3390
02:32:02,360 --> 02:32:00,450
else but if you're reading like say like

3391
02:32:04,820 --> 02:32:02,370
Tom Bearden was back when he wrote

3392
02:32:06,140 --> 02:32:04,830
Excalibur briefing these are told plain

3393
02:32:09,320 --> 02:32:06,150
old manifestations

3394
02:32:12,410 --> 02:32:09,330
you know representing our unresolved

3395
02:32:14,210 --> 02:32:12,420
conflicts and the way he read counted

3396
02:32:17,270 --> 02:32:14,220
mutilations was that the Soviets are

3397
02:32:19,160 --> 02:32:17,280
about ready to destroy us that the you

3398
02:32:21,020 --> 02:32:19,170
know taking of the putter is like taking

3399
02:32:23,860 --> 02:32:21,030
of the mother's milk and these

3400
02:32:26,600 --> 02:32:23,870
the parallels talk about a blind spot

3401
02:32:28,310 --> 02:32:26,610
you know he basically describes a

3402
02:32:30,530 --> 02:32:28,320
Jungian mechanism for collective

3403
02:32:33,530 --> 02:32:30,540
unconscious manifestations which is very

3404
02:32:36,620 --> 02:32:33,540
interesting which is the Tulpa idea

3405
02:32:38,770 --> 02:32:36,630
which goes back to the Tibetan spiritual

3406
02:32:41,870 --> 02:32:38,780
masters of being able to create physical

3407
02:32:43,751 --> 02:32:41,880
manifestations but the idea of being

3408
02:32:46,490 --> 02:32:43,761
able to read what this actually says

3409
02:32:48,350 --> 02:32:46,500
maybe it's like a message to all of us

3410
02:32:50,780 --> 02:32:48,360
if we can read it here we can identify

3411
02:32:53,030 --> 02:32:50,790
these problems and in essence that's

3412
02:32:55,671 --> 02:32:53,040
what Colm Kelleher did he read that and

3413
02:32:57,860 --> 02:32:55,681
what he has data presented him is that

3414
02:33:01,761 --> 02:32:57,870
this is what needs to be done he writes

3415
02:33:09,230 --> 02:33:01,771
the book very good one about the problem

3416
02:33:10,761 --> 02:33:09,240
of you know CJ tea and Red Cow and it's

3417
02:33:15,011 --> 02:33:10,771
really coming into the fore more and

3418
02:33:22,211 --> 02:33:18,680
so you can look at the phenomenon and

3419
02:33:25,040 --> 02:33:22,221
read these this gets very subjective but

3420
02:33:26,900 --> 02:33:25,050
say okay this is problematic here's a

3421
02:33:28,400 --> 02:33:26,910
problematic area that I've identified by

3422
02:33:30,770 --> 02:33:28,410
looking at these cattle mutilations how

3423
02:33:32,751 --> 02:33:30,780
isn't that interesting that's what he

3424
02:33:34,160 --> 02:33:32,761
would get from it you know or what I

3425
02:33:36,921 --> 02:33:34,170
would get from in terms of the nuclear

3426
02:33:38,180 --> 02:33:36,931
thing but back to the just to touch one

3427
02:33:41,870 --> 02:33:38,190
more thing on the trickster I don't

3428
02:33:44,030 --> 02:33:41,880
think I explained that part but what the

3429
02:33:47,091 --> 02:33:44,040
tricksters role in mythology is is the

3430
02:33:49,970 --> 02:33:47,101
great boundary cross or the great the

3431
02:33:52,461 --> 02:33:49,980
entity the life force or whatever that

3432
02:33:55,461 --> 02:33:52,471
turns things upside down every once in a

3433
02:33:58,100 --> 02:33:55,471
while so a new order can be created a

3434
02:34:02,150 --> 02:33:58,110
novelty can emerge new ways of thinking

3435
02:34:04,970 --> 02:34:02,160
new approaches it turns a static social

3436
02:34:08,360 --> 02:34:04,980
order on its head for a while and that's

3437
02:34:10,030 --> 02:34:08,370
lets everything reconfigure so this is

3438
02:34:12,591 --> 02:34:10,040
I'm identifying this is a biological

3439
02:34:15,320 --> 02:34:12,601
force basically and then I get a lot of

3440
02:34:17,600 --> 02:34:15,330
criticism for doing this sort of thing

3441
02:34:20,841 --> 02:34:17,610
because people see it's a scientist

3442
02:34:22,671 --> 02:34:20,851
omits trying to its reductionism its

3443
02:34:25,310 --> 02:34:22,681
reductionist yeah that you're reducing

3444
02:34:28,610 --> 02:34:25,320
the mysteries and the enchantment of the

3445
02:34:31,251 --> 02:34:28,620
world into mechanistic Newtonian terms

3446
02:34:32,780 --> 02:34:31,261
and that's just not going to work for

3447
02:34:33,620 --> 02:34:32,790
the next phase of our evolution it's

3448
02:34:35,480 --> 02:34:33,630
just

3449
02:34:37,400 --> 02:34:35,490
you're leaving to my child you know so

3450
02:34:39,820 --> 02:34:37,410
I'm going like well am I really

3451
02:34:44,120 --> 02:34:39,830
disenchanting the world by pursuing this

3452
02:34:46,820 --> 02:34:44,130
far be it for me you know and other

3453
02:34:49,160 --> 02:34:46,830
people criticize me for putting too much

3454
02:34:50,990 --> 02:34:49,170
magic into the world right

3455
02:34:52,370 --> 02:34:51,000
by even considering this kind of stuff

3456
02:34:54,350 --> 02:34:52,380
so I'm like well wait a minute

3457
02:34:57,320 --> 02:34:54,360
what am i doing taking magic out

3458
02:34:59,590 --> 02:34:57,330
everybody magic in gee whiz so you know

3459
02:35:03,310 --> 02:34:59,600
it gets very confusing at that level but

3460
02:35:06,230 --> 02:35:03,320
it seems like that to me guy in theory

3461
02:35:09,170 --> 02:35:06,240
will have a lot of implications for our

3462
02:35:11,960 --> 02:35:09,180
dealing with climate change and the

3463
02:35:15,469 --> 02:35:11,970
really pressing issues that are you know

3464
02:35:17,179 --> 02:35:15,479
could destroy Gaia Gaia will find a way

3465
02:35:19,870 --> 02:35:17,189
are the human collective unconscious in

3466
02:35:23,600 --> 02:35:19,880
conjunction with Gaia or the human

3467
02:35:26,389 --> 02:35:23,610
unconscious by itself something or other

3468
02:35:28,400 --> 02:35:26,399
there these forces working to get us to

3469
02:35:30,380 --> 02:35:28,410
deal with these eminent problems that we

3470
02:35:32,900 --> 02:35:30,390
we're going to have to face up to soon

3471
02:35:34,520 --> 02:35:32,910
David we have only a moment or two left

3472
02:35:36,650 --> 02:35:34,530
and I want to ask you a fast question

3473
02:35:41,540 --> 02:35:36,660
what's he feeling about the so called

3474
02:35:43,490 --> 02:35:41,550
climate change deniers golly that's

3475
02:35:45,260 --> 02:35:43,500
funny I was reading something just

3476
02:35:47,090 --> 02:35:45,270
recently James Lovelock

3477
02:35:51,050 --> 02:35:47,100
an interview he did in an English

3478
02:35:52,310 --> 02:35:51,060
newspaper and they asked him what what

3479
02:35:56,420 --> 02:35:52,320
are we gonna do about this climate

3480
02:35:58,780 --> 02:35:56,430
change issue will we be able to do

3481
02:36:07,520 --> 02:35:58,790
anything to mitigate this and he said no

3482
02:36:09,530 --> 02:36:07,530
humans are too stupid that was a

3483
02:36:11,210 --> 02:36:09,540
paraphrase he didn't it wasn't exactly

3484
02:36:13,340 --> 02:36:11,220
the way they put it but that was the

3485
02:36:14,179 --> 02:36:13,350
headline humans too stupid to deal with

3486
02:36:15,830 --> 02:36:14,189
climate change

3487
02:36:17,980 --> 02:36:15,840
well they don't understand the

3488
02:36:20,840 --> 02:36:17,990
difference between weather and climate

3489
02:36:22,370 --> 02:36:20,850
right the winter we get a snowstorm oh

3490
02:36:24,200 --> 02:36:22,380
there's no climate change because in the

3491
02:36:26,620 --> 02:36:24,210
winter we got a snowstorm

3492
02:36:29,480 --> 02:36:26,630
what about eccentric weather what about

3493
02:36:31,520 --> 02:36:29,490
extreme weather you never know David

3494
02:36:33,590 --> 02:36:31,530
Perkins is there a place we can find

3495
02:36:37,969 --> 02:36:33,600
more of what you do or do you kind of

3496
02:36:40,780 --> 02:36:37,979
exist in another realm of existence I'm

3497
02:36:43,219 --> 02:36:40,790
in another order of existence here but

3498
02:36:45,080 --> 02:36:43,229
anybody you know wanted to follow up on

3499
02:36:47,510 --> 02:36:45,090
some of these ideas I'm spouting

3500
02:36:49,190 --> 02:36:47,520
to get Chris's books read all the

3501
02:36:52,400 --> 02:36:49,200
forwards and the introductions that I

3502
02:36:55,219 --> 02:36:52,410
write and some of the stuff that makes

3503
02:36:57,920 --> 02:36:55,229
it into his actual books I have a

3504
02:36:59,510 --> 02:36:57,930
bibliography you can find online of

3505
02:37:02,450 --> 02:36:59,520
various articles I've written over the

3506
02:37:04,760 --> 02:37:02,460
years things on the Sherman ranch and I

3507
02:37:08,300 --> 02:37:04,770
write I wrote from begonia the English

3508
02:37:10,130 --> 02:37:08,310
publication that those are online and

3509
02:37:12,050 --> 02:37:10,140
I'm you know really excited about this

3510
02:37:14,000 --> 02:37:12,060
this project with Chris I think this is

3511
02:37:16,760 --> 02:37:14,010
a it's just going to be a Norma's amount

3512
02:37:19,310 --> 02:37:16,770
of fun and interesting and we seem to

3513
02:37:23,030 --> 02:37:19,320
you know bring out good things in each

3514
02:37:24,920 --> 02:37:23,040
other and complemented each other's way

3515
02:37:27,620 --> 02:37:24,930
of looking at things and it's a good

3516
02:37:29,960 --> 02:37:27,630
healthy dialogue that we carry out we

3517
02:37:31,250 --> 02:37:29,970
don't always agree obviously but I think

3518
02:37:32,750 --> 02:37:31,260
something really Goods gonna come out of

3519
02:37:34,700 --> 02:37:32,760
this I encourage people to get up to

3520
02:37:36,770 --> 02:37:34,710
speed with all those books and then get

3521
02:37:38,480 --> 02:37:36,780
ready for the next one and this has been

3522
02:37:40,910 --> 02:37:38,490
a very healthy dialogue and you see in a

3523
02:37:42,200 --> 02:37:40,920
couple of cases here Chris and David do

3524
02:37:46,070 --> 02:37:42,210
not see eye to eye

3525
02:37:47,840 --> 02:37:46,080
David Perkins we want you back to focus

3526
02:37:50,420 --> 02:37:47,850
on a lot more stuff that we couldn't get

3527
02:37:54,380 --> 02:37:50,430
to today so we hope you will do that

3528
02:37:56,860 --> 02:37:54,390
sure Chris O'Brien has our strange

3529
02:37:59,810 --> 02:37:56,870
planet calm but for this book he's got

3530
02:38:01,820 --> 02:37:59,820
stalking the herd calm that's where you

3531
02:38:04,940 --> 02:38:01,830
can learn more about the book order a

3532
02:38:08,030 --> 02:38:04,950
copy and Chris will autograph it for you

3533
02:38:10,910 --> 02:38:08,040
you can find us on Twitter where we're

3534
02:38:13,550 --> 02:38:10,920
known as the para cast you can find us

3535
02:38:15,800 --> 02:38:13,560
on stitcher which is that online radio

3536
02:38:17,719 --> 02:38:15,810
service they've got apps for iOS and

3537
02:38:20,210 --> 02:38:17,729
Android we're in the top 300 there

3538
02:38:22,160 --> 02:38:20,220
okay so somebody's listening to us in

3539
02:38:24,770 --> 02:38:22,170
addition to GCN you can also hear the

3540
02:38:29,750 --> 02:38:24,780
power cast on the boost radio network

3541
02:38:32,090 --> 02:38:29,760
and the IR an internet radio network so

3542
02:38:34,130 --> 02:38:32,100
more and more and more people are

3543
02:38:37,070 --> 02:38:34,140
listening to their show their favorite

3544
02:38:40,310 --> 02:38:37,080
paranormal show each and every week

3545
02:38:42,200 --> 02:38:40,320
David Perkins thank you so much for

3546
02:38:52,910 --> 02:38:42,210
joining us this week on the power

3547
02:38:59,340 --> 02:38:56,429
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3548
02:39:02,330 --> 02:38:59,350
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3549
02:39:06,030 --> 02:39:02,340
presentation of making the impossible